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The Squad

Millsy_Yiddo said:
The difference here, and the reason why Fergie is such a good manager and so far ahead of Redknapp is that his filler players always perform for him, ours on the other hand do not.

It's always amazed me how players like Wes Brown, John O'shea even Johnny Evans who would struggle to get into our team always did (or do) the business for United even though they only play once in a blue moon, it's all down to Fergie.
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Fergie is not a good example, and does not rotate in the way most people think

- He tends to play young/fringe players more early in season (one of the reason Manure typically doesn't have a great 1st half to seasons)
- Experience/big name players later (this year's example being Scholes)

But he also has the benefit of being able to pay (wages) for a player like Berbatov to sit on the bench for 50% of season, and enough of a sure thing re some trophy that players will be willing to take that much bench time.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
It's criminal the lack of rotation that's occured under Harry in the league, there really was no need to burn us out like he has. You don't have to rest 5 players at a time, but 1 maybe 2 players could be rested without disrupting the side too much, they'd be on the bench to bring on if things weren't going to plan anyway. Fergie rotates with the best of them and he's doing it with filler players like Park, Fletcher, etc. I'd take his policy over the one we've used.
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I think the biggest reason we havent rotated is the lack of like for like replacements. Dropping just Adebayor, or Modric, or VDV, or Bale requires a huge shift in playing system.

We cant just rest one or two and maintain continuity.

We have seen as much with Lennons injury over Christmas/Jan.

And yes, it is something I think the manager is responsible for.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think the biggest reason we havent rotated is the lack of like for like replacements. Dropping just Adebayor, or Modric, or VDV, or Bale requires a huge shift in playing system.

We cant just rest one or two and maintain continuity.

We have seen as much with Lennons injury over Christmas/Jan.

And yes, it is something I think the manager is responsible for.
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I was going to talk about the like for like replacements in my original post, but would have meant another couple of paragraphs and explanations and I had to get back to work ! I'm glad you brought it up and it is the managers responsility. I think he at least tried to get cover for Ade in Saha, although not completely like for like he can play up top on his own, it just hasn't worked out because of Saha's form (and the teams implosion).

Fergie motivates his fringe players and makes them feel part of the squad and they all know they'll get game time, it's certainly not the same here. With us it's 1st team and reserve team, not 1 big matchday squad.
 
Im all for variety in players to allow for alternative tactics and set ups, but firmly believe you need support for your core system of play.

Ours relies on Adebayor playing alone, Bale and Lennon playing wide and VDV floating in space.

In our squad only VDV has anything like cover in Kranjcar, and yet he has never been used in the position!

Its the managers responsibility, in any team, to prepare for continuity in play. It keeps consistency and form going.

Imagine having a utility wide player, someone like Hoilett able to operate either side, allowing us to replace Lennon when injured - or rest Bale against the likes of Stevenage...

He might not be as good as those, but he is good enough to do the job and allow the team to play consistently
 
Raziel said:
Fergie is not a good example, and does not rotate in the way most people think

- He tends to play young/fringe players more early in season (one of the reason Manure typically doesn't have a great 1st half to seasons)
- Experience/big name players later (this year's example being Scholes)

But he also has the benefit of being able to pay (wages) for a player like Berbatov to sit on the bench for 50% of season, and enough of a sure thing re some trophy that players will be willing to take that much bench time.
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Not quite my point. My point is that if Harry (or any other manager) had the same group of players as Fergie and played them as you suggest (although I'm not sure thats entirely true) i.e fringe players for the first half of the season, then come the second half of the season, they would not be within touching distance of the league because a manager who is not Fergie could not motivate these 'sub-standard' players in the same way.

To a certain extent I agree with your point re trophies and wages, however United are the one top 4 club that you never hear a player complaining about being on the bench (bar the one Rooney incident). The players just don't do it, yet at other top clubs a so called top player is dropped and they come out and complain (eg Lampard this year at Chelsea).

Edit: Gazza Dazzla summed it up better than me with 'Fergie motivates his fringe players and makes them feel part of the squad and they all know they'll get game time, it's certainly not the same here. With us it's 1st team and reserve team, not 1 big matchday squad'. That hits the tickle my balls with a feather IMO.
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im all for variety in players to allow for alternative tactics and set ups, but firmly believe you need support for your core system of play.

Ours relies on Adebayor playing alone, Bale and Lennon playing wide and VDV floating in space.

In our squad only VDV has anything like cover in Kranjcar, and yet he has never been used in the position!

Its the managers responsibility, in any team, to prepare for continuity in play. It keeps consistency and form going.

Imagine having a utility wide player, someone like Hoilett able to operate either side, allowing us to replace Lennon when injured - or rest Bale against the likes of Stevenage...

He might not be as good as those, but he is good enough to do the job and allow the team to play consistently
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Good post. Don't see how anyone would not consider Hoillet as an option which would strengthen us greatly if he continues playing as well as he has been this season, with better players around him he could become even better.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im all for variety in players to allow for alternative tactics and set ups, but firmly believe you need support for your core system of play.

Ours relies on Adebayor playing alone, Bale and Lennon playing wide and VDV floating in space.

In our squad only VDV has anything like cover in Kranjcar, and yet he has never been used in the position!

Its the managers responsibility, in any team, to prepare for continuity in play. It keeps consistency and form going.

Imagine having a utility wide player, someone like Hoilett able to operate either side, allowing us to replace Lennon when injured - or rest Bale against the likes of Stevenage...

He might not be as good as those, but he is good enough to do the job and allow the team to play consistently
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I had an argument in the transfer rumours thread a couple of months ago when I was advocating exactly the same thing when saying we fudged up not buying Hoillett in Jan. The usual suspects revolted because he wasn't better than what we had !
 
he'd have looked a lot more clever if he'd said this as a parting shot in january rather than some massive aftertiming
 
He was a great option, out of contract this summer so negotiable for a reasonable price (even at a bit of a premium)

Able to cover either Lennon or Bale, well (imo), and would have seen plenty of games since Jan. COULD have made a big difference to our results, kept the attack fresher...
 
Am i the only person offended by the thread title?

Who is this 'we dont have depth' fella, and why is he saying "corluka"??
 
I can see why Corluka and the other squad players felt alienated. Look at our wins from earlier in the season. Even if the starting XIs weren't always identical, essentially we had a very defined first XI with the three first reserves clearly being Defoe, Sandro and Livermore. Dawson, Gallas and Kranjcar featured when they were fit, but they weren't available for long period of the season. That's only part of the story though. Barring injuries, Harry's substitutions in these games were usually late in the game, to bring on either one of the established first XI or the three reserves. If you weren't part of this group of 14, you hardly got to play. You'd sit there watching other people having all this success. Even if you are a substitute coming on when the team is winning, you'd like to play for at least 20 minutes to feel like you were part of the win and that you can enjoy it with the team. The outcasts usually only got 5-10 minutes at best on the rare occasions they did get on the field, they can hardly feel like part of the success the club was having. As it happened, when we needed our squad players to perform in the cups, their confidence was at rock bottom and they were brick.

Corluka, Pienaar, Bassong, Rose, Dos Santos and Pavlyuchenko have made a combined total of 27 substitute appearances and two starts for us this season in the league. Even Berbatov gets more playing time than that! Even Huddlestone made as many PL appearances for us as Pienaar did this season and he's been out injured since August! That's ridiculous. Whilst I don't rate all of them, there's proven Premier League calibre players on that list who could have helped us. The other thing is that the players who they were substituted for were the usual suspects. First substitution was almost always Van Der Vaart. The likes of Bale, Modric and Walker are practically never substituted so it's no wonder that they're all knackered now.

I remember a famous Jol quote saying that keeping squad players happy was an English thing, it's them who should be keeping him happy. I think this is true to a degree, you don't have a divine right to play just because you're part of the squad, but to neglect so many talented squad players was madness. Mancini could afford to cast out Adebayor and Tevez to show his authority because he had Aguero, Balotelli and Dzeko. We now have no cover for Modric, our wingers, or our right-back and we have to play Ryan Nelsen in defence. Now even if we'd dropped points in a couple of those early season wins as a result of over-rotating, I guarantee we wouldn't have dropped more than the 21 points we've dropped from our last 9 games which has happened because of a lack rotation.
 
sooooo....... you don't rate him Skeikh?


Another classic Spurs player imo, ruined by playing on through pain with countless injections due to Harry's lack of depth issues, therefore causing a much more severe injury, after which the player is rushed back and is made to look brick due to lack of fitness and still being injured. Flamini really fudged it up for him as well. The ****.

Wish him all the best if he moves on, can understand why he'd want to. But am very open to him coming back, getting a full pre season and then being a good part of our squad.
 
spurspinter1 said:
sooooo....... you don't rate him Skeikh?


Another classic Spurs player imo, ruined by playing on through pain with countless injections due to Harry's lack of depth issues, therefore causing a much more severe injury, after which the player is rushed back and is made to look brick due to lack of fitness and still being injured. Flamini really fudged it up for him as well. The ****.

Wish him all the best if he moves on, can understand why he'd want to. But am very open to him coming back, getting a full pre season and then being a good part of our squad.
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It's fair to say I'm not a great fan of 'Charlies' work.

I love your long-winded excuse for him being brick - that deserves a round of applause =D>
 
Sheikh Ma Nuggets said:
It's fair to say I'm not a great fan of 'Charlies' work.

I love your long-winded excuse for him being brick - that deserves a round of applause =D>
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It is the most obvious explanation seeing as such an instrumental part of us getting to the champions league in the first place.

I can see people being a bit edgy about his pace, or lack of it, but I miss having a right back that can contribute to attacking play, I don't think anyone can debate that Charlie and Lennon was pretty fudging devestating. I miss having a right side that actually produces something.
 
spurspinter1 said:
It is the most obvious explanation seeing as such an instrumental part of us getting to the champions league in the first place.

I can see people being a bit edgy about his pace, or lack of it, but I miss having a right back that can contribute to attacking play, I don't think anyone can debate that Charlie and Lennon was pretty fudging devestating. I miss having a right side that actually produces something.
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I miss a full back that can actually defend. Corluka may have been slow, but his positioning was fantastic and the amount and quality of crosses (compared to what we've witnessed this season) coming in from the opposition left was vastly reduced when he played at RB.
 
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