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The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

what i am going to do now is check the odds for ajax to win the league at the start of the last few seasons..

if i can find them that is
 
Be it Poch , FDB or Rafa , I cant say I'm overly excited about either of the three candidates. I'd go with either of them with a shrug of the shoulders, an okay and a whatever Mr Levy .

We need Athletico to humiliate Carlo Ancelotti's Real team and even then, Carlo to Spurs is but a dream .
 
africanspurs said:
that is kind of the point i am trying to make...the competitiveness has not that much significance, not entirely nothing, to do with the leagues quality.

in your experiment it would be the guy that leads the Ajax team , but my thought is that there are not 7 teams of roughly the same stature and pull in the top tier...there are teams getting results on par to one another but Ajax is still ajax and still command as much resources and influence as any other team in that league. The level of media and promotion and TV exposure and marketing that Brand name gets in direct comparison to other teams is almost distorted
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i'll reply to this rather than the earlier post as Dublinspur covered what i was initially going to say.

the Dutch league may be ranked quite low in overall quality but that does not make winning the league any easier. I agree Ajax are the no.1 team and thus should always be there or thereabouts, however it isn't set in stone that they will win the league and it doesn't stop the other teams from being able to build good teams/invest in their squads. AZ and PSV (i believe) are backed by corporations and can invest money outside of their share of tv deals and what not and Feyenoord are a huge club within Holland by their own rights and have financial clout through that (relative to the league of course) Ajax are number one, still, but i don't think they are as far and away superior financially as it would appear. (would be interested to see if anyone has some data that can show one way or the other)

anyhow - the fact he came in as a manager with no prior first team experience and took a team which had had a poor recent spell and took them to 4 consecutive titles says to me there is potentially something there - it's not a one off good season, it's 4 - it's title after title despite losing your best players each season and having to use players from within to rebuild - it isn't simply doing a Chelsea/City and buying up all the available talent and blitzing your opponents through having the best players, it's building team after team and having success with each variant. Obviously there are question marks and as with every candidate there are potential negatives (FdB isn't particularly my first choice even) I just think writing off what he has achieved as simply Ajax doing what they always do isn't a true reflection of what has happened there these past 4 years - in fact as i have said before this is the first time in their illustrious history that they have won 4 titles on the spin, all those great teams of the past - the European cup winning sides never managed it and that was a time when Ajax were probably a more superior club financially to their peers than they are in modern times.


i think it was Grassroots who said Ajax were not favorites to win the title this season, i also think in his first season in charge it would have been very unlikely that the bookies would have made them favorites what with there being a new manager in charge and keeping in mind their recent barren spell.


anyway im off out now, so don't take any silence tonight the wrong way ;)
 
billyiddo said:
i'll reply to this rather than the earlier post as Dublinspur covered what i was initially going to say.

the Dutch league may be ranked quite low in overall quality but that does not make winning the league any easier. I agree Ajax are the no.1 team and thus should always be there or thereabouts, however it isn't set in stone that they will win the league and it doesn't stop the other teams from being able to build good teams/invest in their squads. AZ and PSV (i believe) are backed by corporations and can invest money outside of their share of tv deals and what not and Feyenoord are a huge club within Holland by their own rights and have financial clout through that (relative to the league of course) Ajax are number one, still, but i don't think they are as far and away superior financially as it would appear. (would be interested to see if anyone has some data that can show one way or the other)

anyhow - the fact he came in as a manager with no prior first team experience and took a team which had had a poor recent spell and took them to 4 consecutive titles says to me there is potentially something there - it's not a one off good season, it's 4 - it's title after title despite losing your best players each season and having to use players from within to rebuild - it isn't simply doing a Chelsea/City and buying up all the available talent and blitzing your opponents through having the best players, it's building team after team and having success with each variant. Obviously there are question marks and as with every candidate there are potential negatives (FdB isn't particularly my first choice even) I just think writing off what he has achieved as simply Ajax doing what they always do isn't a true reflection of what has happened there these past 4 years
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this is the FIRST link i found

http://betting.ladbrokes.com/en/ajax-odds

in that link it shows that ajax's return to dominance came primarily cause they had been returned to the CL by Martin Jol. this spring boarded them to have a better season IMO...as their already strong pull got even stronger one would assume. and it seems they have never looked back and coasted to a title.

shock horror

and it is PRECISELY because he came in as a manager with no experience and took an under performing institution to the title after they were primed for big things ...thanks to Jol....that makes me sceptical.....how much of an uphill battle has this man had..

i dont know what season they were talking about in that link but the bookies had them favourites or have them favourites to win either the upcoming season or the corresponding season to 2010/11 season

and rightly so...because its ajax. let de boer do that with lower level outfit...then we can talk

of course there are question marks over everyone...but he has the biggest one x 4 of them over his head when compared to pochettino and benitez
 
Yo Dublin

I dont think that thing about having 6 or 7 teams roughly on equal footing is right man

check out the link below and look at the points differential and goals for and against between the top 10 teams

http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/netherlands/eredivisie/standings/

Ajax beast that league...and it coincided DIRECTLY after Jol gets them to the CL with the highest points total they have had in the last 7 years. Jol missed out on winning the league by one point!!! (that is amazing that he didnt win it...how the living hell do you score 40 more goals ...FORTY!!! than the champions and concede the least amount of goals of anyone in the league AND STILL NOT win the damn thing :eek:)
 
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wiziwig said:
Be it Poch , FDB or Rafa , I cant say I'm overly excited about either of the three candidates. I'd go with either of them with a shrug of the shoulders, an okay and a whatever Mr Levy .

We need Athletico to humiliate Carlo Ancelotti's Real team and even then, Carlo to Spurs is but a dream .
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Ancelotti is nailed on for Monaco I think if he becomes available.
 
billyiddo said:
i think he'd only be waiting on Ancelotti if he had reason to believe there's a chance he'd come.

personally i think if there's a small chance of it being possible it'd make sense to wait a few days before pressing ahead with any other appointment. can you imagine if we appointed someone this week, Ancelotti get's sacked on Monday and says he would have loved the chance to manage us - how much **** Levy would get for not waiting it out :lol:
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I mentioned a while back that I wouldnt be surprised if we went in for him as soon as IF they lost the CL Final. Real sack managers left right and centre and Levy knows it too.
 
With the BBC reporting that we won't be looking at any currently unemployed managers it would be fair to keep a close eye on Ajax and Saints and Napoli news as obviously they would announce a departure before we announce a new manager.

Also this rules out Moyes, Lennon and a few others.
 
africanspurs said:
Yo Dublin

I dont think that thing about having 6 or 7 teams roughly on equal footing is right man

check out the link below and look at the points differential and goals for and against between the top 10 teams

http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/netherlands/eredivisie/standings/

Ajax beast that league...and it coincided DIRECTLY after Jol gets them to the CL with the highest points total they have had in the last 7 years. Jol missed out on winning the league by one point!!! (that is amazing that he didnt win it...how the living hell do you score 40 more goals ...FORTY!!! than the champions and concede the least amount of goals of anyone in the league AND STILL NOT win the damn thing :eek:)
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That really is crazy. Poor Martin, unlucky bastard.
 
'chunky' on COYS re Roberto Martinez...

So i'm told, he is very interested.
But if we want him, we need to go to Kenwright and do a deal. He wont tell them he wants out first

'scat1620' on SC on 'chunky'...

Chunky is one of the old school original COYS ITKs (along with Peanut) who very rarely post info but usually it is spot on when they do. As far as I know, that's the first ITK anyone has heard from Chunky or Peanut for a fair while, so it's definitely very interesting that he's chosen now to dish out some new info.
 
Worth a little dabble with Betvictor

Next Permanent Tottenham Manager Roberto Martinez (Outright - Specials) Odds: 25/1 Stake: 5.00 Possible Return: 130.00
Next Permanent Tottenham Manager Carlo Ancelotti (Outright - Specials) Odds: 33/1 Stake: 5.00 Possible Return: 170.00
 
markysimmo said:
I seriously dont get apart from cash the lure of Monaco, playing in front of 3k fans in a **** league, wow brilliant...
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Bottomless sack of money. They're being linked with every (moneygrabbing **** of a) player at the moment and together with PSG could make serious forays in the CL in years to come (if they can stay clear of FFP).

I think both the French and Portuguese league have potential to overtake Italy in the very near future.
 
Jordinho said:
Bottomless sack of money. They're being linked with every (moneygrabbing **** of a) player at the moment and together with PSG could make serious forays in the CL in years to come (if they can stay clear of FFP).

I think both the French and Portuguese league have potential to overtake Italy in the very near future.
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I can see the £££££££££££££££££££££ but its a crap league, no fans, its not and never will have the excitement and the passion of the PL
 
Jordinho said:
'chunky' on COYS re Roberto Martinez...

So i'm told, he is very interested.
But if we want him, we need to go to Kenwright and do a deal. He wont tell them he wants out first

'scat1620' on SC on 'chunky'...

Chunky is one of the old school original COYS ITKs (along with Peanut) who very rarely post info but usually it is spot on when they do. As far as I know, that's the first ITK anyone has heard from Chunky or Peanut for a fair while, so it's definitely very interesting that he's chosen now to dish out some new info.
Click to expand...

Do remember that, according to some on this MB some time ago, both Martinez and Rogers were not good enough for Spurs.

If Levy has got the slightest chance of attracting Roberto to WHL, (after the catalogue of disastrous manager appointments, over years) then he should go on his knees to him and beg, if necessary. Truly a modern manager, today and tomorrow's man, got the lot: tactics, personality, man management, credibility, press darling, communication skills, a winner, gutsy. Pay Kenwright whatever he wants..........

The dude from Southampton would be another disaster IMHO. Jeez..... he doesn't speak English. That's a pre-requisite now.
 
Sheffield Spur said:
Do remember that, according to some on this MB some time ago, both Martinez and Rogers were not good enough for Spurs.

If Levy has got the slightest chance of attracting Roberto to WHL, (after the catalogue of disastrous manager appointments, over years) then he should go on his knees to him and beg, if necessary. Truly a modern manager, today and tomorrow's man, got the lot: tactics, personality, man management, credibility, press darling, communication skills, a winner, gutsy. Pay Kenwright whatever he wants..........

The dude from Southampton would be another disaster IMHO. Jeez..... he doesn't speak English. That's a pre-requisite now.
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He does speak English. Personally I don't really see the difference between Martinez and Poch.
 
Jordinho said:
'chunky' on COYS re Roberto Martinez...

So i'm told, he is very interested.
But if we want him, we need to go to Kenwright and do a deal. He wont tell them he wants out first

'scat1620' on SC on 'chunky'...

Chunky is one of the old school original COYS ITKs (along with Peanut) who very rarely post info but usually it is spot on when they do. As far as I know, that's the first ITK anyone has heard from Chunky or Peanut for a fair while, so it's definitely very interesting that he's chosen now to dish out some new info.
Click to expand...

If we're going down that (the ITK) route, 'The original JJetset' said today that Poch will be in before the CL final tomorrow night.
 
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