The midweek/weekend games thread

[ArcspacE]

It's the ref's job to stop the game, not the players'.

Can only do so for head injury anyway - nothing else

 

[1882]

Can only do so for head injury anyway - nothing else

...ahem, I think heart attack now counts!

 

[ArcspacE]

A leap of faith


Winning fouls is part and parcel of the game, says Nev

Last Updated: April 17, 2012 10:02am

Sky Sports pundit Gary Neville believes retrospective punishment for going to ground too easily sets a dangerous precedent.

"Some of the greatest player that I've ever played with, people who everybody looks up to, we've seen do it. I dived a few times."
Gary Neville Quotes of the week

Manchester United's Ashley Young has attracted heavy criticism in the past week for perceived dives to win penalties; the winger went down in a heap in the 2-0 win over QPR at Old Trafford - earning the hosts a penalty and visiting captain Shaun Derry a red card that was not rescinded - and Young was accused of theatrics again when felled by Ciaran Clark's challenge during Sunday's 4-0 win over Villa.

But Neville believes that ensuring a referee is aware of contact and fouls is something that is embedded in football.

He told Monday Night Football: "Every dressing room in the country will have a group of players who are told that when there's contact in the box or they get touched, you've got to go down.

"Whether we like it or not, whether it depresses the people at home, if you want the truth then that is fact.

Worldwide

"That happens probably in amateur football, it's happening in professional football, it's happening in the Premier League. He [Ashley Young] absolutely made the most of it, he goes to ground easily, dived - whatever expression you are comfortable with using, Ashley Young did to win that penalty.

"Some of the greatest players that I've ever played with, people who everybody looks up to, we've seen do it. I dived a few times.

"This is not just about one incident in this last two weeks. This is about every single game of football with the greatest players in the world who do this. I've heard people say Lionel Messi doesn't dive - he does. I wouldn't call these players cheats.

"If you're going to ban players retrospectively for three matches every time they go to ground easily or dive, you're going to have anarchy in football."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/7678693/A-leap-of-faith

 

[Jurgen the German]

The fact that people are entertaining the idea of Rafa Benitez becoming our next manager is frightening! This is the man who played Steven Gerrard, one of the best English centre midfielders of the last 20 years, on the left! As others have pointed out, he made a handful of good signings, and a long list of bad to absolutely terrible signings!

Wenger is a bad loser and a bad winner. Same goes for everybody associated with the club, fans, players, the kit man, the tea lady, everybody! Look at Van Persie goading Tim Krul after they beat them a few weeks ago. I'd pay good money to fight Wenger!

I fudging hate it when people say you need to be a bad loser in order to be a good winner. It's basically saying you need to be a ****. Messi isn't a ****. I get that you need to have a ruthless streak to be a great sportsman or coach and the top ones genuinely hurt when they lose, but that doesn't mean you have to be so ungracious in defeat like Wenger and Arsenal are. It's one of the main reasons why I hate Wenger, also the main reason why I can't stand Tiger Woods.

 

[Raziel]

The fact that people are entertaining the idea of Rafa Benitez becoming our next manager is frightening! This is the man who played Steven Gerrard, one of the best English centre midfielders of the last 20 years, on the left! As others have pointed out, he made a handful of good signings, and a long list of bad to absolutely terrible signings!

Wenger is a bad loser and a bad winner. Same goes for everybody associated with the club, fans, players, the kit man, the tea lady, everybody! Look at Van Persie goading Tim Krul after they beat them a few weeks ago. I'd pay good money to fight Wenger!

I fudging hate it when people say you need to be a bad loser in order to be a good winner. It's basically saying you need to be a ****. Messi isn't a ****. I get that you need to have a ruthless streak to be a great sportsman or coach and the top ones genuinely hurt when they lose, but that doesn't mean you have to be so ungracious in defeat like Wenger and Arsenal are. It's one of the main reasons why I hate Wenger, also the main reason why I can't stand Tiger Woods.

People confuse not liking to lose and being highly competitive with being a c@#t

Being a c@#t is one way of being highly competitive, but it isn't the only way, and it's not the Tottenham Way.

Re Benitez, I had my say, he somehow has his fans because of the trophies he has managed, but again, I would say that's not our way.

 

[Rorschach]

A leap of faith


Winning fouls is part and parcel of the game, says Nev

Last Updated: April 17, 2012 10:02am

Sky Sports pundit Gary Neville believes retrospective punishment for going to ground too easily sets a dangerous precedent.

"Some of the greatest player that I've ever played with, people who everybody looks up to, we've seen do it. I dived a few times."
Gary Neville Quotes of the week

Manchester United's Ashley Young has attracted heavy criticism in the past week for perceived dives to win penalties; the winger went down in a heap in the 2-0 win over QPR at Old Trafford - earning the hosts a penalty and visiting captain Shaun Derry a red card that was not rescinded - and Young was accused of theatrics again when felled by Ciaran Clark's challenge during Sunday's 4-0 win over Villa.

But Neville believes that ensuring a referee is aware of contact and fouls is something that is embedded in football.

He told Monday Night Football: "Every dressing room in the country will have a group of players who are told that when there's contact in the box or they get touched, you've got to go down.

"Whether we like it or not, whether it depresses the people at home, if you want the truth then that is fact.

Worldwide

"That happens probably in amateur football, it's happening in professional football, it's happening in the Premier League. He [Ashley Young] absolutely made the most of it, he goes to ground easily, dived - whatever expression you are comfortable with using, Ashley Young did to win that penalty.

"Some of the greatest players that I've ever played with, people who everybody looks up to, we've seen do it. I dived a few times.

"This is not just about one incident in this last two weeks. This is about every single game of football with the greatest players in the world who do this. I've heard people say Lionel Messi doesn't dive - he does. I wouldn't call these players cheats.

"If you're going to ban players retrospectively for three matches every time they go to ground easily or dive, you're going to have anarchy in football."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/7678693/A-leap-of-faith

I was listening to this crap last night after the match and as much as I think he is a good pundit he is way off on this. He has missed the opportunity to condemn this blight on our sport, and if you heard the rest of what he said he basically came across as supporting diving, which I thought was bizarre. Although there has always been a bit of diving it is way out of control. Young has blatantly dived in his last 2 games and Neville couldn't bring himself to condemn him.

And for me he is wrong about the retrospective punishment. Pretty much everybody can tell when someone is diving or not. And ex-pros can with almost 99% certainty. And yes, it should be retrospectively punished by 3 game bans - 5 games for 2nd offences. Maybe there are a few that will get wrongly punished but I think this would be a small price to pay to removing the endemic cheating that is happening every game now.

 

[1882]

So... onto tonight; promotion/relegation at stake...

I'd quite like to see Cov stay up (dunno why, it's totally irrational after '87, but they are a traditional Top 2 division team... but I guess for that to happen, Bristol City would have to lose to West Ham... which I don't want happening... Oooooooooooh it's a conundrum!

Reading to get promoted tonight... hopefully Southampton to follow...
Swindon should make it in Division 4... sorry, League 2 if you must... and I've got hight hopes for Shrewsbury doing the same this week...

Oh, and there's CL going on too... dunno how i'd feel if Real got through, a Chelsea/Madrid final would be an unbearable Jose-toss-fest I couldn't bear to watch...

besides, I really fancy a Bayern v Barcelona final... would be frickin' awesome duuuuuuuuuuude!

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re Benitez, I had my say, he somehow has his fans because of the trophies he has managed, but again, I would say that's not our way.

I wonder if Bill Nick would proudly declare our 5-1 loss a landmark in Spurs history because we did it 'our way'. Somehow, I don't think he would.

I get the feeling a lot of us believe the '61 team were a bunch of saintly angels in white who passed the ball with the outside of the sandal and never made a single bad tackle or played a single defensive strategy.

Sigh. Rafa is who he is, his medals speak for themselves. If the same tired old lines keep getting trotted out time and again by a million people, what's the point in even trying to change that? The media, and English fans, seem to have made him a clown, an inept buffoon. It saddens me, that a lot of us were perfectly willing to praise Martin O'Neill earlier in the season and were clamoring to see him come to us, while the mere mention of Rafa, a man who's won more in the game than O'Neill ever will, and who is more of a tactician that O'Neill ever was, instantly evokes cries of anger and furious spittle flying around.

Let's agree to disagree. Out of curiosity, though, who did you want as manager again?

 

[Armchair Expert]

Loads and loads of Bayern shirts everywhere - city has gone into overdrive. I really hope FCB can do it but there gonna picked picked off a couple of times at least at the back.

Gomez is going to have to be super clinical tonight (which he isnt always) and their going to need 2-3 goals i recon to be in with a shout in the return leg.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I wonder if Bill Nick would proudly declare our 5-1 loss a landmark in Spurs history because we did it 'our way'. Somehow, I don't think he would.

I get the feeling a lot of us believe the '61 team were a bunch of saintly angels in white who passed the ball with the outside of the sandal and never made a single bad tackle or played a single defensive strategy.

Sigh. Rafa is who he is, his medals speak for themselves. If the same tired old lines keep getting trotted out time and again by a million people, what's the point in even trying to change that? The media, and English fans, seem to have made him a clown, an inept buffoon. It saddens me, that a lot of us were perfectly willing to praise Martin O'Neill earlier in the season and were clamoring to see him come to us, while the mere mention of Rafa, a man who's won more in the game than O'Neill ever will, and who is more of a tactician that O'Neill ever was, instantly evokes cries of anger and furious spittle flying around.

Let's agree to disagree. Out of curiosity, though, who did you want as manager again?

Hear Hear. In my opinion, if attainable, he is the only sensible choice. I mean Lambert, O'neil - really weird what criteria people use to judge a manager sometimes.

 

[Raziel]

Let's agree to disagree. Out of curiosity, though, who did you want as manager again?

Mate, we disagree, you think Rafa is a good manager, I don't, or very specifically I think like Ramos he is one of those managers who doesn't get the English game, will win cups, but will amount to fudge all in the EPL, lets leave it there.

Re who I want, unlike a lot of people here, I have no great ideas that promise to transform our current squad to CL champions, I honestly think Harry has done well overall with the team. But here goes anyway ...

- First choice = Mourinho, best manager in the world, probably would only spend two years, cost a ton of $$ but would win a FA/CC and get us in CL each year. However not going to happen, bigger fish to fry.
- Outside shot = Mancini, if the City sugar daddy loses faith, we could do worse, he knows how to defend, will use creative players and has gone through his EPL training wheels with someone else.
- Risk for future = AVB, if we want a manager with tactics, modern philosophy and who we can build a system with for the next 5-7 years, might be worth the gamble

Not english, not international managers, not any one season wonders and someone who has dealt with bigger name players and actually won something.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Mate, we disagree, you think Rafa is a good manager, I don't, or very specifically I think like Ramos he is one of those managers who doesn't get the English game, will win cups, but will amount to fudge all in the EPL, lets leave it there.

Re who I want, unlike a lot of people here, I have no great ideas that promise to transform our current squad to CL champions, I honestly think Harry has done well overall with the team. But here goes anyway ...

- First choice = Mourinho, best manager in the world, probably would only spend two years, cost a ton of $$ but would win a FA/CC and get us in CL each year. However not going to happen, bigger fish to fry.
- Outside shot = Mancini, if the City sugar daddy loses faith, we could do worse, he knows how to defend, will use creative players and has gone through his EPL training wheels with someone else.
- Risk for future = AVB, if we want a manager with tactics, modern philosophy and who we can build a system with for the next 5-7 years, might be worth the gamble

Not english, not international managers, not any one season wonders and someone who has dealt with bigger name players and actually won something.

sounds like er ... Benitez????

 

[DubaiSpur]

Mate, we disagree, you think Rafa is a good manager, I don't, or very specifically I think like Ramos he is one of those managers who doesn't get the English game, will win cups, but will amount to fudge all in the EPL, lets leave it there.

Re who I want, unlike a lot of people here, I have no great ideas that promise to transform our current squad to CL champions, I honestly think Harry has done well overall with the team. But here goes anyway ...

- First choice = Mourinho, best manager in the world, probably would only spend two years, cost a ton of $$ but would win a FA/CC and get us in CL each year. However not going to happen, bigger fish to fry.
- Outside shot = Mancini, if the City sugar daddy loses faith, we could do worse, he knows how to defend, will use creative players and has gone through his EPL training wheels with someone else.
- Risk for future = AVB, if we want a manager with tactics, modern philosophy and who we can build a system with for the next 5-7 years, might be worth the gamble

Not english, not international managers, not any one season wonders and someone who has dealt with bigger name players and actually won something.

Like AE said, sounds like Benitez all over. But yeah, AVB would be a decent choice as well, can't fault you there. Mourinho's a bit of a fantasy, and Mancini's an extremely disciplinarian type who I don't think the players will take to very much.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It's not just Spurs fans who don't rate Benitez. Most United fans I know were sad to see him leave Liverpool. Chelsea fans made banners in protest against the idea of going for him as manager. He is partly responsible for the mess Liverpool are in now in terms of their league position.

 

[DubaiSpur]

It's not just Spurs fans who don't rate Benitez. Most United fans I know were sad to see him leave Liverpool. Chelsea fans made banners in protest against the idea of going for him as manager. He is partly responsible for the mess Liverpool are in now in terms of their league position.

I know,mate, I know. I'm arguing that he's been demonized by the media more than anything. Painted as an inept clown, a buffoon incapable of motivating the mighty Steeeeevy G and not fit to lace Woy's owl-skin shoes. And us fans have bought into that. But it paints the wrong picture.

He's a winner, and a tactician. And we need both of those. I'm not actively campaigning for him to come over (still have a wee hope for Jose, after all), but I'd be very happy with his appointment if it happened.

edit; or the man in your avatar, actually; if he chose to abandon the sun and fun of California, I'd have him in a heartbeat. More sentiment than anything elsse,though.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Dubai, you do the posters on this board a great disservice by assuming their views are lead by the media as opposed to their own judgement.

Benitez has been succesfull and in some areas of management can be excellent, but there are definite, tangible negatives that play against him.

So much so that for me I would not be impressed with his appointment at all.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dubai, you do the posters on this board a great disservice by assuming their views are lead by the media as opposed to their own judgement.

Benitez has been succesfull and in some areas of management can be excellent, but there are definite, tangible negatives that play against him.

So much so that for me I would not be impressed with his appointment at all.

I do them no disservice, mate. I merely point out that sometimes the media can get the better of you. I'm certainly not immune. Neither are you. I, for example, bought into all that 'Rooney, Best Player EVARRRR!' bull at WC 2010, and I was the first to fall for all that 'Huzzah for Spurs and Harry!' palaver they came out with earlier in the season when we were roaring into third. I'm sure you have something like that as well. But occasionally, you might see something that other people can't, or won't. For me, I don't see a fat laughing stock who failed at Liverpool; I see a seriously experienced trophy winner. He's won the CL, for GHod's sake.

Like I said before, he has negatives; of course he does. He's not Jock Stein reborn with the tactical mind of Cesar Menotti. But he's better than, say, Lambert at this point in time. And Rodgers. And Moyes. And Martinez. And Bilic.

We all have something we rage against the world about; I've got several, and Benitez' ill treatment is one of those niggles.

 

[THFCTB]

Should this not be in the 'Next Spurs Manager' thread?

Looking forward to the game tonight, been a long since I've watched a match between two brilliant teams where I don't have to worry about the result.

 

[billyiddo]

i base my opinion solely on the fact that throughout his time at Liverpool he routinely bored people to death by playing unadventurous football

and from my time on here i certainly don't ever recall there being many (if any) that thought otherwise - way before this final seasons when the press started to have it in for him. great record in cup competitions and a great tactician i think almost everyone would agree - but a total negative anti football merchant

 

[markysimmo]

Somebody stole Ronaldo's boots from the dressing room