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The Immense Struggle to avoid the European Conference League

billyiddo said:
Just because we've been locked in the fight for top 4 for the last few seasons doesn't mean it's limit of our ambitions
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Never heard the chairman say that or ambition is to win the title .... more along the lines of staying competitive. More of an effort than ambition let's say
 
Well we avoided relegation today...on a serious note 10pts clear of Brentford we SHOULD be looking at no lower than 8th. Villa away in a few weeks just became a lot bigger than it was this time last month
 
Gazza said:
Never heard the chairman say that or ambition is to win the title .... more along the lines of staying competitive. More of an effort than ambition let's say
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I sincerely believe that the ambition is to win the title, but it's a bit of a case of "damned if you, damned if you don't." Winning the title is an incredibly difficult task, so if he says that's the ambition it creates an expectation that may actually remain unfulfilled. If he says "we're looking to be competitive," it encapsulates trying to win the title (I mean, being competitive is essentially putting ourselves in a position to win the title) without going the extra step of actually saying it.

My personal opinion is that it should be a stated goal by Levy. A statement to the effect "We're trying to build out the club to give us the resources to strengthen the team and compete for the league title and other big prizes in football. We realize this is not an easy goal and may take some time to achieve, but that is what our ultimate objective is, so our fans and our players can experience once again great achievements by our club." I also think that this would get a lot of people off Levy's back.
 
alekaras said:
I sincerely believe that the ambition is to win the title, but it's a bit of a case of "damned if you, damned if you don't." Winning the title is an incredibly difficult task, so if he says that's the ambition it creates an expectation that may actually remain unfulfilled. If he says "we're looking to be competitive," it encapsulates trying to win the title (I mean, being competitive is essentially putting ourselves in a position to win the title) without going the extra step of actually saying it.

My personal opinion is that it should be a stated goal by Levy. A statement to the effect "We're trying to build out the club to give us the resources to strengthen the team and compete for the league title and other big prizes in football. We realize this is not an easy goal and may take some time to achieve, but that is what our ultimate objective is, so our fans and our players can experience once again great achievements by our club." I also think that this would get a lot of people off Levy's back.
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Actions speak louder than words and the clubs numerous actions over the years suggest that we are fine being somewhat competitive. We don't have a burning desire to win at all costs. It just isn't that important to where we place ourselves as club.

Competing and build the club profiles is enough for the custodians of the club and I don't even think that's a bad approach. I just prefer honesty.

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paxtonwolf said:
Well we avoided relegation today...on a serious note 10pts clear of Brentford we SHOULD be looking at no lower than 8th. Villa away in a few weeks just became a lot bigger than it was this time last month
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Agree about Villa away. Saudi Sportswashing Machine go there next week whlist we face Bournemouth so there is a realistic prospect we could be level of points with Saudi Sportswashing Machine when we play them, even if they have a game in hand.

Man U at home is looking easier now with Rashford injured and them having come through a congested period due to their EL and FAC games (2.5 weeks til we play them so hopefully he's out for that game)
 
paxtonwolf said:
Well we avoided relegation today...on a serious note 10pts clear of Brentford we SHOULD be looking at no lower than 8th. Villa away in a few weeks just became a lot bigger than it was this time last month
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It has been my pleasure in recent seasons to try and emphasise the positive after this fashion ...

As of today, we cannot be overtaken by the following :-

Everton ..... ..... ..... GW30
Nottingham Forest ..... GW30
Leicester City .... ..... GW30
Southampton ..... ..... GW30
​
Which, as a wiser man points out, means we can rejoice at avoiding relegation.
 
AdamB said:
Agree about Villa away. Saudi Sportswashing Machine go there next week whlist we face Bournemouth so there is a realistic prospect we could be level of points with Saudi Sportswashing Machine when we play them, even if they have a game in hand.

Man U at home is looking easier now with Rashford injured and them having come through a congested period due to their EL and FAC games (2.5 weeks til we play them so hopefully he's out for that game)
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Rashford will be fine
They are nursing him every game now
 
glasgowspur said:
Personally if i put in some of the performances that our team has over the past six years I'd be busting a gut in the next game, if only for my own personal pride.
Its pretty damming on the club that this has been going on for so long over so many changes.
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True. But I think some see it as just a job and regardless of them "liking" to win a cup. All of them will still be picking up their 180k a week whatever happens.
To change the entire mindset we somehow have instill a mentality in a young group of players like UTD did in the 90s. And have a manger stay long enough to get it done. We ain't gonna get a this current crop (bar a few). If we can get 1 group to win something it might start an avalanche of greatness
 
Mrs Vert said:
True. But I think some see it as just a job and regardless of them "liking" to win a cup. All of them will still be picking up their 180k a week whatever happens.
To change the entire mindset we somehow have instill a mentality in a young group of players like UTD did in the 90s. And have a manger stay long enough to get it done. We ain't gonna get a this current crop (bar a few). If we can get 1 group to win something it might start an avalanche of greatness
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We need to be careful and not throw out the baby with the bath water.
For all the class of 92 gonads utd still had seasoned pros like bruce, pallister and irwin in thier title winning sides.
The youngsters got limited time and were allowed to grow into the team.
We do have a good core of younger players but we need some older, wiser heads in there as well.
Kane romero and Bentancur for example all have good experience and some leadership qualities.
 
alekaras said:
I've gotten to the point where, even if we don't make CL, I wouldn't mind us being in the EL. But if we can't even make EL, fudge the ECL. Would rather be out of Europe altogether.
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The knock out stages of the EL is not far off the CL. It's just that the money is peanuts in comparison.
 
glasgowspur said:
We need to be careful and not throw out the baby with the bath water.
For all the class of 92 gonad*s utd still had seasoned pros like bruce, pallister and irwin in thier title winning sides.
The youngsters got limited time and were allowed to grow into the team.
We do have a good core of younger players but we need some older, wiser heads in there as well.
Kane romero and Bentancur for example all have good experience and some leadership qualities.
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Agreed. which is why I said a few. Kane I don't see staying. Not many of the current old heads I think would add much in terms of demanding more from others. Plus I think most of us want half the team to still move on. I'm excited for a new crop we have and maybe buy in some older ones. Like when we had Edgar etc....
 
Mrs Vert said:
Agreed. which is why I said a few. Kane I don't see staying. Not many of the current old heads I think would add much in terms of demanding more from others. Plus I think most of us want half the team to still move on. I'm excited for a new crop we have and maybe buy in some older ones. Like when we had Edgar etc....
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Personally I'm ambivalent whether Kane stays or goes. Would certainly like him to stay and wouldnt actively look to sell him, but if we bagged £100m for him and then spend £30m on a back-up CF to Richarlison and £70m on some form of creative attacker (exact type dependent on new manager's formation) then I think we'd be better balanced than we are today. At the moment, we have a £60m signing sitting on the bench and getting no game time whilst we have glaring gaps elsewhere
 
AdamB said:
Personally I'm ambivalent whether Kane stays or goes. Would certainly like him to stay and wouldnt actively look to sell him, but if we bagged £100m for him and then spend £30m on a back-up CF to Richarlison and £70m on some form of creative attacker (exact type dependent on new manager's formation) then I think we'd be better balanced than we are today. At the moment, we have a £60m signing sitting on the bench and getting no game time whilst we have glaring gaps elsewhere
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That £60m signing should've got plenty of game time, the only reason he didn't is because of a stubborn manager that refused to use him.
 
DubSpur said:
That £60m signing should've got plenty of game time, the only reason he didn't is because of a stubborn manager that refused to use him.
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I don't disagree, but still doesnt invalidate my point that we have a lot of 'value' stacked in one position (CF) despite the fact that we dont have any quality in other positions, in particular creative roles
 
AdamB said:
I don't disagree, but still doesnt invalidate my point that we have a lot of 'value' stacked in one position (CF) despite the fact that we dont have any quality in other positions, in particular creative roles
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We don't. We've two players for that role. For years everyone was complaining about the lack of cover for Harry, now that we have it you want to get rid of Harry and get a £30m striker as cover. That will be first a big drop-off from Harry to Richarlison, then most likely a big drop-off from Richy to the new cover, and us in an even worse situation than the one with a lack of cover for Harry.
 
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