The Immense Struggle to avoid the European Conference League

[alekaras]

Probably cause some see that as a club we value being in the top 4 as a end goal rather than a stepping stone.
If we're not gonna compete, why be in it, as a fan it brings no real value. I'd rather us finish 5th and win the F.A Cup then finish 4th at this point.
Finishing 4th is meant to represent the next step in the clubs evolution, but it doesn't seem to represent that for us, it's just more revenue to the club.

Of course being in the top 4 is the next step in the club's evolution. But how quickly do you think this evolution will take? The higher you are, the more difficult it gets to get to the next level. We could be in the top 4 for a good 5-10 years before winning a title. Since their last title Arsenal had been in the top 4 for 12 years and didn't manage to win the title again. It took Liverpool 27 years to win their first PL title. And these were teams that had a head start compared to us. And you expect us to do it in 3-4 years?? (and I say 3-4, because that's when we started closing the financial gap with the rest of the big teams)

But that's the problem. A lot of you guys see this as the club being satisfied with 4th. You don't understand that it takes time. It's all "I want it here and now." That's pretty delusional, if you ask me.

 

[harr1984]

We're not good enough to win to the league so might as well jack that off too. Don't understand that attitude.

Well yeah, I’d happily sacrifice players for certain league games when we have cup games in tournaments we could actually win. People on here try and belittle Chelsea, Liverpool etc when they have a bad season in the league but they still win trophies and that’s what matters because no one can take that achievement away from you. No one is ever going to be talking about the season Spurs came 4th, you show you’re a team by winning things.

But sure, if just being in the CL for the sake of being in it is more appealing to you then fair enough I respect your opinion….

 

[alekaras]

We're not good enough to win to the league so might as well jack that off too. Don't understand that attitude.

Yeah, I don't get that too. Some people are satisfied with us winning an EFL cup, as if we're a Villa or Spam, who would celebrate it like they won the CL and league title in the same season, because that's the limit of their ambitions. Instead of being happy that we have a team that on a good year can actually compete for the title. Just weird...

 

[fernadez]

I don't particularly want anything now but I would like my club not too sack managers who have a good record of winning cup finals on the eve of cup finals for example.

I don't think it's selfish of someone who's supported the club all his life and followed them home and abroad to want them to win something, and not give the impression that certain cups are beneath them.

Winning and challenging is about mentality if we're to evolve into a top club it's not just a financial change, it's about cultivating a winning culture, whatever the tournament or game is.

 

[harr1984]

Yeah, I don't get that too. Some people are satisfied with us winning an EFL cup, as if we're a Villa or Spam, who would celebrate it like they won the CL and league title in the same season, because that's the limit of their ambitions. Instead of being happy that we have a team that on a good year can actually compete for the title. Just weird...

Well yes as a club that have won zero trophies for 15 years why shouldn’t we be satisfied to win an EFL cup? Doesn’t mean we can’t aim higher, but certainly can be satisfied with that. That was the last trophy we won and have to go back another 15 plus years for the next one - only certain Spurs fans would look down at winning such things.

We have a team who on a good year can compete for the title?! We really don’t…..

 

[DubSpur]

I don't particularly want anything now but I would like my club not too sack managers who have a good record of winning cup finals on the eve of cup finals for example.

I don't think it's selfish of someone who's supported the club all his life and followed them home and abroad to want them to win something, and not give the impression that certain cups are beneath them.

Winning and challenging is about mentality if we're to evolve into a top club it's not just a financial change, it's about cultivating a winning culture, whatever the tournament or game is.

I think we all want to win something, no matter what it is. But being in the top 4 is not mutually exclusive to winning a cup. We have constantly been in semi-finals and a few finals in the last 15 years.
Getting top 4 won't stop that. What top 4 will help with is having a deeper squad that can handle competing in the league and going deep into cups without running the same 11 into the ground every game.

 

[DubSpur]

But sure, if just being in the CL for the sake of being in it is more appealing to you then fair enough I respect your opinion….

It's not about being in the CL just for the sake of it. We came close to winning it already. It's not always the best side that wins a cup competition.
And being in it doesn't stop us from winning the FA or League cup.

 

[Bullet]

Being in the CL gives us an extra £50m or whatever, I forget the real numbers.
Which WILL be invested in the team, despite what imbeciles and kids will tell you.

 

[Rorschach]

Being in the CL gives us an extra £50m or whatever, I forget the real numbers.
Which WILL be invested in the team, despite what imbeciles and kids will tell you.

Good advice is to try not talk to imbeciles and kids about football. They know nothing and get distracted fairly easily by non-football things.

 

[johnola]

Being in the CL gives us an extra £50m or whatever, I forget the real numbers.
Which WILL be invested in the team, despite what imbeciles and kids will tell you.

Yeah we had a windfall all right and yet the only real telltale it happened was the stench of rotten apples.

 

[spurspinter1]

Yeah, I don't get that too. Some people are satisfied with us winning an EFL cup, as if we're a Villa or Spam, who would celebrate it like they won the CL and league title in the same season, because that's the limit of their ambitions. Instead of being happy that we have a team that on a good year can actually compete for the title. Just weird...

What's weird is belittling other clubs for hypothetically winning competitions and making out that celebrating that achievement would be a bad thing. Finishing top in a competition (whether domestic cup or European) does not show the club's limitation, it literally shows the opposite. With your Villa / Spam theory, you're making out that the club would effectively retire after winning it and almost making out that winning something is a bad thing, frankly it's a bizarre notion.

It's weird to pretend that this team or any recent Spurs team has genuinely competed for the title. We managed to put the pressure on for a bit and finished third, sorry to break that delusion.

What irritates many fans is the paradox of CL competition - Apparently to compete we need to be in it, but being in it is used as an excuse for not being competitive in the league and cups because of the additional ganes against quality opposition.

It's never as simple as "I'd rather finish outside of the top 4 and win the FA cup" as it's not a set trade off but moreso the culture isn't right at the club from the board to the players. It's easier for us to consider top four as some kind of massive achievement. Don't get me wrong it felt that way when it was fresh ie Crouch at the Etihad and the excitement of it all but we've proven you can be in it more often than not and still not be competitive.

 

[fernadez]

Would be interesting if the European competitions were put back like they used to be and Champions League was for the holders and teams that finished first (which I personally think it should be, then have UEFA cup and Cup Winners Cup.

How much interest would there be for other competitions then knowing that we don't have a squad that can challenge for the title?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Would be interesting if the European competitions were put back like they used to be and Champions League was for the holders and teams that finished first (which I personally think it should be, then have UEFA cup and Cup Winners Cup.

How much interest would there be for other competitions then knowing that we don't have a squad that can challenge for the title?

Only interest any clubs have is the £££ it brings in

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't particularly want anything now but I would like my club not too sack managers who have a good record of winning cup finals on the eve of cup finals for example.

I don't think it's selfish of someone who's supported the club all his life and followed them home and abroad to want them to win something, and not give the impression that certain cups are beneath them.

Winning and challenging is about mentality if we're to evolve into a top club it's not just a financial change, it's about cultivating a winning culture, whatever the tournament or game is.

I’m with you. I actually think our season came unstuck the moment we (tried to) prioritise the league over the FA Cup and made wholesale changes for the game at Sheffield United from the team that had just got wins against West Ham and Chelsea.

Had we gone full strength there I think we would’ve won, I think the high from that would likely have carried us through the Wolves and Milan games as well.

We basically turned what was a pretty good mood at the club into a bad one and we haven’t recovered that mood since.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's not about being in the CL just for the sake of it. We came close to winning it already. It's not always the best side that wins a cup competition.
And being in it doesn't stop us from winning the FA or League cup.

The one (very special) manager that got us close to winning it then got the sack 12 games into the next season because it looked like we might miss out on the top 4.

 

[alekaras]

Well yeah, I’d happily sacrifice players for certain league games when we have cup games in tournaments we could actually win. People on here try and belittle Chelsea, Liverpool etc when they have a bad season in the league but they still win trophies and that’s what matters because no one can take that achievement away from you. No one is ever going to be talking about the season Spurs came 4th, you show you’re a team by winning things.

But sure, if just being in the CL for the sake of being in it is more appealing to you then fair enough I respect your opinion….

The thing is, though, that if you have built a proper squad with interchangeable pieces you shouldn't need to sacrifice players for league games to focus on the cups. You should be able to rest some starters and still get a result against Sheffield's reserves. It's not binary.

 

[alekaras]

What's weird is belittling other clubs for hypothetically winning competitions and making out that celebrating that achievement would be a bad thing. Finishing top in a competition (whether domestic cup or European) does not show the club's limitation, it literally shows the opposite. With your Villa / Spam theory, you're making out that the club would effectively retire after winning it and almost making out that winning something is a bad thing, frankly it's a bizarre notion.

It's weird to pretend that this team or any recent Spurs team has genuinely competed for the title. We managed to put the pressure on for a bit and finished third, sorry to break that delusion.

What irritates many fans is the paradox of CL competition - Apparently to compete we need to be in it, but being in it is used as an excuse for not being competitive in the league and cups because of the additional ganes against quality opposition.

It's never as simple as "I'd rather finish outside of the top 4 and win the FA cup" as it's not a set trade off but moreso the culture isn't right at the club from the board to the players. It's easier for us to consider top four as some kind of massive achievement. Don't get me wrong it felt that way when it was fresh ie Crouch at the Etihad and the excitement of it all but we've proven you can be in it more often than not and still not be competitive.

I never said it's a bad thing to win an EFL cup. I said it's a bad thing that this seems to be the limit of some people's ambitions for the club. The ambition should be to win the title or win the CL. If the team is getting closer to that objective (and you may want to rewrite history, but we did have a couple of years that we came close, even if we just chasing), then that is what should be more important. If we happen to win a domestic cup in the process, great. If not, then so be it, as long as we are getting closer to the bigger goal, keeping in mind that it is not linear. We may be 2nd one year, 5th the next, 3rd the next, back to 6th, and so on before we make the breakthrough. You have the impression that top 4 is considered the achievement, whereas it's really just a stepping stone to the big prize.

 

[alekaras]

The one (very special) manager that got us close to winning it then got the sack 12 games into the next season because it looked like we might miss out on the top 4.

No, he got the sack because the football was turgid, the team was underperforming, and we needed something fresh.

 

[alekaras]

Would be interesting if the European competitions were put back like they used to be and Champions League was for the holders and teams that finished first (which I personally think it should be, then have UEFA cup and Cup Winners Cup.

How much interest would there be for other competitions then knowing that we don't have a squad that can challenge for the title?

If they did that, the next lower level competition would be much more interesting for the fans. A CL with only the champions would have 3-4 competitive teams, a couple of outsiders, and the rest would be cannon fodder. No one would watch it until the semis or QFs. The lower level competition, in the meantime, would feature Barca/Real/Atletico, Chelsea/United/Liverpool/Spurs/Arsenal, Juve/Napoli/Inter/Milan/Roma, Dortmund/RB Leipzig, Monaco/Marseille/Lyon, Porto/Benfica/Sporting, Ajax/PSV/Feyenoord/AZ, and so on. Guess which one fans would be watching most from the start of the competition.

The problem with the CL is the name. If they had decided to continue calling the European Cup (but with a different format than the original), or the European Super League or something, we wouldn't be having this discussion pop up every now and then.

 

[billyiddo]

What people seem to overlook with this topic is that in order to reastically have a good chance of winning the domestic trophies you still need to build a team that's one of the best in the league - it's all one and the same, build a good team, maintain it over several seasons, add depth, keeping growing, keep improving, keep investing. That's how you put yourself in the mix. We're not going to get there by not striving to be one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league.