The Goon Thread

[Gazzasrightboot]

It's an interesting one, is it better for him to have the ambition that we could be at that level, or for him to be realistic?

Personally I'd go with the latter.

It is an interesting one. I think you can have both which is what he is showing at the moment. There is always something that you can do. As an example, I would say that you could be better with your money than the current top 3. Is Raheem Sterling worth £50m? Could you buy a better player than Papy Djilobodji? It will be about being more efficient with resources and working harder.

I know some on here are really against stats etc... but the data revolution is one such means to close the gap. At some point, all clubs will be as good as each other in this respect, but until then the gap can be closed massively.

 

[Baleforce]

true, but the richer clubs can shortcut that by buying in talent

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

true, but the richer clubs can shortcut that by buying in talent

They can, but there's only so many players that they can buy. For the majority of top players, being in the CL is a must. Once you are established there, then in my mind it is a bit easier than when you are not in CL. As an example, let us transport to a parallel universe where there was no Emirates Marketing Project and we were the ones that took our seat at that table. Would we have lost Modric and Bale as soon as we had done, and would we have not been able to get Tevez etc..

 

[Baleforce]

yeah, I meant talent in the data analysis dept, if a new technology becomes available and proves useful at a smaller club a big one can just buy their way in when it's mature

 

[glorygloryeze]

so why dont other clubs likes us or liverpool get these players instead then? the kind of players Ar5ena1 get are fully within ours and liverpool's reach imo

That's how i know you have now argued yourself into a corner..it's like you've now conveniently forgotten that we and Liverpool do not have Champions League to offer players, and that in our case we simply do not have the money to pay the kind of wages they can offer - let alone having the ability to have a net spend on 45M (without going into big debt) in one summer like in the case of when they bought Ozil. I wont bother mentioning the spending spree they went through in the summer of 2014 which included Sanchez at 32M.

You've gone form being hilarious to downright senile in your postings now

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

yeah, I meant talent in the data analysis dept, if a new technology becomes available and proves useful at a smaller club a big one can just buy their way in when it's mature

Agreed. I think this is where clubs are being a bit more savvy though. It will be interesting to see what is happening at Brentford. If they get that technology working, then I can see them selling that to one of the bigger clubs.

 

[billyiddo]

the cost of the increase in the chance of success does not equal the potential returns from this increase in the chance of success.

you are of the opinion that all football clubs are success chasers.

Ar5ena1 and their board are profit chasers. and a lot of football fans seem to massively struggle to understand this concept. but once you do understand it, you will see why wenger is actually much better than you think

Im sorry but even in that case he outspends everyone below him by a considerable amount, so it doesn't change a thing - it may excuse him for his apparent lack of ambition (if it were true, which I highly doubt) but it doesn't make spending so much more than all but 3 teams in the country to consistently finish behind them any kind of achievement

 

[SpurMeUp]

you just dont get it do you? there are some people in this world that dont buy a club just because they want to win trophies. there are people in this world who dont view football as a profit free environment.

you just dont get it mate. and because there are enough people who think along the same lines as you, guys like kroenke will always stand to make a fortune from owning sports clubs

Im not sure you got my point: if money was the only issue for the controlling shareholder, why wouldn't he sell to the Uzbek multi-multi billionaire? Usmanoz is worth considerably more than Abromovich. He has so much cash that it would be a struggle to spend it all in his own lifetime.

 

[Neymar]

Im not sure you got my point: if money was the only issue for the controlling shareholder, why wouldn't he sell to the Uzbek multi-multi billionaire?

theres nothing to suggest that usmanov has made a genuine bid for arsenal. and it looks like the value of football clubs will continue to soar in the future too. it probably is worth it for kroenke to hold on the the business for now.

 

[Neymar]

Im sorry but even in that case he outspends everyone below him by a considerable amount, so it doesn't change a thing - it may excuse him for his apparent lack of ambition (if it were true, which I highly doubt) but it doesn't make spending so much more than all but 3 teams in the country to consistently finish behind them any kind of achievement

he finishes above them with some regularity as i pointed out earlier. the problem is he needs arsenal to have a super year, and 3 teams to have bad years. hence why arsenal winning the league has become a rarity

 

[Neymar]

That's how i know you have now argued yourself into a corner..it's like you've now conveniently forgotten that we and Liverpool do not have Champions League to offer players, and that in our case we simply do not have the money to pay the kind of wages they can offer - let alone having the ability to have a net spend on 45M (without going into big debt) in one summer like in the case of when they bought Ozil. I wont bother mentioning the spending spree they went through in the summer of 2014 which included Sanchez at 32M.

You've gone form being hilarious to downright senile in your postings now

those players that you mentioned dont have champions league at their current clubs anyway. and a move to us or lpool would be a massive step up for them both in terms of salaries and prestige.apart from ozil, any of arsenals transfers in recent years couldve ended up at us or lpool had arsenal not been in for them.

arsenal's spending spree? both us and lpool have shown that we can match that kind of "spree" in the past few years

 

[Neymar]

Kroenke is not making a fortune yet. He's not been paid any dividend for the last 2 years, and pays himself a salary of £25k a year. The other Kroenke earns £12k a year. If he were profit orientated, he would either pay himself a handsome salary, handsome dividend or he is planning on selling his shares at some point in the future.

the business is building up its cash reserves as well as taking out millions in "management fees". kroenke is making far more than you apparently think he is

 

[billyiddo]

he finishes above them with some regularity as i pointed out earlier. the problem is he needs Ar5ena1 to have a super year, and 3 teams to have bad years. hence why Ar5ena1 winning the league has become a rarity

No what you actually pointed out was the opposite - Chelsea and United when they finished 6th and City before they became what they are, this is supposed to show Wenger consistently doing better than he should? Give over

 

[Neymar]

No what you actually pointed out was the opposite - Chel53a and United when they finished 6th and City before they became what they are, this is supposed to show Wenger consistently doing better than he should? Give over

the fact is, he often does finish above where he spend dicates he should. but never really falls below. who else gets their teams doing this?

and anyway, this wasnt really the reason why i said wenger was a genius. i have long said that all teams long term on pitch results reflects their financial status. wenger's teams are not really any different in this regard

 

[billyiddo]

he finishes above them with some regularity as i pointed out earlier. the problem is he needs Ar5ena1 to have a super year, and 3 teams to have bad years. hence why Ar5ena1 winning the league has become a rarity

The point was when has he overachieved since the league caught up - the examples you have given do not show him overachieving.

Over achieving for Arsenal in their current position would be genuinely challenging for the title, not finishing above two teams who had brick seasons and finished 6th ffs

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

the business is building up its cash reserves as well as taking out millions in "management fees". kroenke is making far more than you apparently think he is

To be fair you have a point with the "management fee" as I can see from the accounts that he has charged £3m. That doesn't really signify someone who is in it just for the money though does it? Building up cash reserves is not going to help Kroenke. Not unless they pay a dividend, and they have not done that for 2 years. If he sells the club, having the cash balance is not really going to help either.

 

[Neymar]

To be fair you have a point with the "management fee" as I can see from the accounts that he has charged £3m. That doesn't really signify someone who is in it just for the money though does it? Building up cash reserves is not going to help Kroenke. Not unless they pay a dividend, and they have not done that for 2 years. If he sells the club, having the cash balance is not really going to help either.

if he sells the club, having the cash balance will massively boost the value of the business. its basically liquid cash. also being in it for the money doesnt neccessarily mean he wants massive YoY profits. in fact the profits arent that big. but compared to other clubs that lose big amounts most years, its pretty good. a lot of the value of owning a business like Ar5ena1 could lie in the fact that the club's value will rise even if he does nothing but just holds onto the business

read this too (from tsf)

http://www.thesecretfootballer.com/...r5ena1-cash-and-alisher-usmanov-is-happy-too/

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

if he sells the club, having the cash balance will massively boost the value of the business. its basically liquid cash. also being in it for the money doesnt neccessarily mean he wants massive YoY profits. in fact the profits arent that big. but compared to other clubs that lose big amounts most years, its pretty good. a lot of the value of owning a business like Ar5ena1 could lie in the fact that the club's value will rise even if he does nothing but just holds onto the business

read this too (from tsf)

http://www.thesecretfootballer.com/...r5ena1-cash-and-alisher-usmanov-is-happy-too/

The cash balance does not boost the price of the business, but rather allows him to get a lower rate of interest if he were to take a loan against the assets to do a takeover of the other shares. Now the thing is that the other shareholders are under no obligation to sell.

Anyway, I think I have had enough of this conversation for today given we have lost to the bastards, but I leave with one point. The Arsenal directors say "funds generated by the business are available for further investment into the club with the aim of achieving an increased level of on-field success, which ultimately translates into the winning of trophies.” Arsenal plainly have not used all of its resources to give itself the best chance of success.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The cash balance does not boost the price of the business, but rather allows him to get a lower rate of interest if he were to take a loan against the assets to do a takeover of the other shares. Now the thing is that the other shareholders are under no obligation to sell.

Anyway, I think I have had enough of this conversation for today given we have lost to the bastards, but I leave with one point. The Ar5ena1 directors say "funds generated by the business are available for further investment into the club with the aim of achieving an increased level of on-field success, which ultimately translates into the winning of trophies.” Ar5ena1 plainly have not used all of its resources to give itself the best chance of success.

Yeah but what do the Directors know!?

 

[Baleforce]

The cash balance does not boost the price of the business, but rather allows him to get a lower rate of interest if he were to take a loan against the assets to do a takeover of the other shares. Now the thing is that the other shareholders are under no obligation to sell.

Anyway, I think I have had enough of this conversation for today given we have lost to the bastards, but I leave with one point. The Ar5ena1 directors say "funds generated by the business are available for further investment into the club with the aim of achieving an increased level of on-field success, which ultimately translates into the winning of trophies.” Ar5ena1 plainly have not used all of its resources to give itself the best chance of success.

an increased level of on field success for them is winning the European cup, can they afford that?