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The Fight for Europa

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Interesting position as regards Chelsea. They've actually had similar issues to us (poor defensively, especially away), and we've got a very similar set of games over Christmas — play each other; both play Brighton and SCBC; Norwich and Arse not dissimilar :D.
 
Six points off fourth. Also six points off 15th.

And we don't look like we're heading up at the moment.
 
Yiddo said:
Have to remember how Liverpool were for the majority of the decade before Jurgen took over and now look at them.
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Just need to hire the best manager in the world and get a chairman willing to back the manager when needed (we'll see if this happens) and we'll get to where Liverpool are.

The perception also isn't the same, being serious for a second. The perception people had of Liverpool then was a fallen giant that would eventually wake up. The perception a lot of people I know have of Spurs (rightly it wrongly) is we were a top 6 team, elevated to top 4 by a period of Kane and Poch etc, who will eventually drop back down.

I don't think we have quite the same draw if we do what they did and start finishing outside the top 6 for a few seasons in a row.
 
Hootnow said:
Just need to hire the best manager in the world and get a chairman willing to back the manager when needed (we'll see if this happens) and we'll get to where Liverpool are.

The perception also isn't the same, being serious for a second. The perception people had of Liverpool then was a fallen giant that would eventually wake up. The perception a lot of people I know have of Spurs (rightly it wrongly) is we were a top 6 team, elevated to top 4 by a period of Kane and Poch etc, who will eventually drop back down.

I don't think we have quite the same draw if we do what they did and start finishing outside the top 6 for a few seasons in a row.
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Leicester have shown recently that it's possible to start from an even lower point than ourselves and put together a team capable of breaking the top 4, no reason we can't do the same being that we would be starting from a stronger position financially and in terms of reputation - the key now that the stadium is built and less of a distraction is to make sure that when we do get ourselves in to the position we were in 2/3 years ago we learn from the mistakes made (whether they were circumstantial or not) in trying to keep the momentum going.
 
We had our chances in 16 and 17 and through a classic Spurs combination of not showing up at key moments and events elsewhere conspiring against us, we fluffed our lines. It might be decades before we get a similar opportunity. The current squad haven't got it in them to win anything in my view, they're hollowed out. The best fight now is probably to avoid the sodding Europa.
 
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billyiddo said:
Leicester have shown recently that it's possible to start from an even lower point than ourselves and put together a team capable of breaking the top 4, no reason we can't do the same being that we would be starting from a stronger position financially and in terms of reputation - the key now that the stadium is built and less of a distraction is to make sure that when we do get ourselves in to the position we were in 2/3 years ago we learn from the mistakes made (whether they were circumstantial or not) in trying to keep the momentum going.
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Any team not awash with money (and even that's no guarantee, although it makes mistakes more irrelevant) is all about the right manager. Klopp Rodgers Nuno etc all comes with a culture, philosophy that elevates the team above the sum of its parts, all buying in and pulling in the same direction.

We had that with Poch, we all could see the effect that then sadly ebbed away. Jose doesn't really do that, he is a tough demanding leader, he'll create seige mentality and protect his players when he can, he'll also throw them under the bus.

Tactically he's good but that can be from game to game. I've never noticed much of a pattern of play with his team's (maybe I mean attractive pattern of play:)). Modern teams definitely have a blue print they follow, it's refined and they all appear to prosper by knowing exactly what they are meant to be doing 95% of the time. Plus as we saw with Poch one or two team changes can be seamless as everyone knows what their doing.

I just don't see Jose doing the collective thing, he'll always have something to say, positive and negative, but the players (I imagine) will always be feeling they're carrying out instructions...never feeling 'we're onto something here' and buzzing about it.

Jose could win pots though, he won two with a poor Utd team....and maybe that is what we need.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Any team not awash with money (and even that's no guarantee, although it makes mistakes more irrelevant) is all about the right manager. Klopp Rodgers Nuno etc all comes with a culture, philosophy that elevates the team above the sum of its parts, all buying in and pulling in the same direction.

We had that with Poch, we all could see the effect that then sadly ebbed away. Jose doesn't really do that, he is a tough demanding leader, he'll create seige meteorology and protect his players when he can, he'll also throw them under the bus.

Tactically he's good but that can be from game to game. I've never noticed much of a pattern of play with his team's (maybe I mean attractive pattern of play:)). Modern teams definitely have a blue print they follow, it's refined and they all appear to prosper by knowing exactly what they are meant to be doing 95% of the time. Plus as we saw with Poch one or two team changes can be seamless as everyone knows what their doing.

I just don't see Jose doing the collective thing, he'll always have something to say, positive and negative, but the players (I imagine) will always be feeling they're carrying out instructions...never feeling 'we're onto something here' and buzzing about it.

Jose could win pots though, he won two with a poor Utd team....and maybe that is what we need.
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And yet Leicester won the title with the Tinkerman at the helm!

I dare say that chancing upon (once in a generation midfield dynamo) Kante plus Mahrez was more conducive to helping them top the table; if only Capoue / Stambouli plus Njie / Nkoudou had worked out so well for us.
 
AdamB said:
A clear out is needed first
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I think this is a very relevant post, i always said Poch was not really to blame for our poor run and that the players ( or some of them had downed tools), now we see the same happening under a new manager ( i have not missed a game this season and its bloody obvious that some players are just going through the motions).

I dare say that there will be some fans who will disagree with that but the truth is in the pudding, under TWO managers we have seen some players just not showing enough determination during games.
 
SteveAWOL said:
And yet Leicester won the title with the Tinkerman at the helm!

I dare say that chancing upon (once in a generation midfield dynamo) Kante plus Mahrez was more conducive to helping them top the table; if only Capoue / Stambouli plus Njie / Nkoudou had worked out so well for us.
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Outlier of the century.
 
parklane1 said:
I think this is a very relevant post, i always said Poch was not really to blame for our poor run and that the players ( or some of them had downed tools), now we see the same happening under a new manager ( i have not missed a game this season and its bloody obvious that some players are just going through the motions).

I dare say that there will be some fans who will disagree with that but the truth is in the pudding, under TWO managers we have seen some players just not showing enough determination during games.
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I truly believe in the modern game 80% of players like to be told or taught exactly what they're meant to be doing for the majority of the game. Without that guidance they look a bit lost and look even worse if playing a team that has it.
 
The other 20% are made up of 'Auriers' who don't have a clue what's going on full stop and 'Kanes' who will do everything you ask and more.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I truly believe in the modern game 80% of players like to be told or taught exactly what they're meant to be doing for the majority of the game. Without that guidance they look a bit lost and look even worse if playing a team that has it.
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Every player has a job to do and its usually led by the management team and practised in training' (of course some players have that bit of magic that they also have), the guidance is there ( of course some managers are better then others) its just some players do not do it and that is when if its not done on a consistant basis questions can be asked about the players attitudes.
 
parklane1 said:
I think this is a very relevant post, i always said Poch was not really to blame for our poor run and that the players ( or some of them had downed tools), now we see the same happening under a new manager ( i have not missed a game this season and its bloody obvious that some players are just going through the motions).

I dare say that there will be some fans who will disagree with that but the truth is in the pudding, under TWO managers we have seen some players just not showing enough determination during games.
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This. The fact that nobody activated Alderweireld’s release clause, only the likes of Watford looked at Rose, no elite clubs felt inclined to make big bids for Eriksen and our former midfield lynchpin ended up moving to China just highlights what a mediocre squad full of injury prone nearly men Mourinho has inherited.

Perhaps if Levy had managed to get Mane over the line then Pochettino would be the one smiling with the CL trophy... although Spurs do have a history of giving players a guided tour who then win silverware with our rivals :oops:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...nal-sadio-mane-transfer-profile-a8932646.html
 
http://www.sportsvisualized.com/cann-premier-league

I didn't realise Liverpool still have a game in hand, even after tomorrow's game. Sheesh. They are doing rather well.
We have 8 points to make up on Cheatski, in 15 matches.
Trouble is, we aren't very good and don't score any goals.
But apart from that...

61Liverpool (21)
60
59
58
57
56
55
54
53
52
51
50
49
48Man City (23)
47
46
45Leicester (22)
44
43
42
41
40
39Chelsea (23)
38
37
36
35
34Man Utd (22)Wolves (23)
33Sheffield United FC (23)
32
31Tottenham (23)
30Crystal Palace (23)
29Arsenal (23)Everton (23)
28Southampton (23)
27
26Newcastle (23)
25Brighton (23)
24Burnley (22)
23West Ham (22)Watford (23)
22Aston Villa FC (23)
21
20Bournemouth (23)
19
18
17Norwich City FC (23)
 
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