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The double DM pivot - is it working for us?

Pirate55

Pirate55

The Last Man Standing 17/18
The seemingly one constant this season is the double DM pivot. Yet our defence seems as fragile as ever.

Is it really working for us? We seem to have only one "proper" dedicated DM in Capoue, yet he seems to go awol as much as any of the others. All the others have various strengths and weaknesses ( or should that be weaknesses and strengths) and are "much if a muchness" IMO. With two DMs is there too much likelihood that they leave covering to the other one?

What is certain is the back four are hopelessly exposed to the long diaganol ball. Is this a function of us still playing too high a line? Are they all just too slow, too poorly positioned or just too damn weak. Our players don't seeem to have any speed, strength or stamina. Have we seen any lung busting runs at the end of games a la Terry recently?

Is it that Poch just can't get his instructions across? If that is the case, then it is really really worrying. If his instructions to players are anything like his interviews, then I am really not surprised they are confused.

Also, what has happened to the high pressure? Have we given up on it , as it doesn't appear to be happening either? Our fitness level at this point in the season is of great concern to me.

What do others think is the problem in defence?
 
What do others think is the problem in defence?

First of all, our full backs" all of them "are less quality than standard. We can not have a decent team with naughten and rose on sides" even dier and davies " may be with walker, things may work, he could help the other full back and the system.
 
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No its not working. Our defence is exposed like the bad old days
 
What's the definition/description of a double pivot?

For me that term described what we had under AVB with Dembele and Paulinho quite well. Currently, not so sure.
 
I think we are missing Walker, even Naughton. FBs are crucial to the system and Dier (great prospect though he is), isn't right for it.

Under AVB we had two DMs as the double pivot (Dembele + Sandro). We were defensively strong, but didn't get the ball forward quick enough, meaning we principally only scored from long range and solo dribbles.

Under Timmeh we had no DMs and got turned over in midfield regularly

Poch seems to be working towards a better balance - one DM who can move the ball a bit (Capoue, Stambouli) and one deep sitting ballplayer who transitions the ball quickly (Mason, Bentaleb). The balance/combination isn't quite there yet (though Capoue-Mason looked good against Soton and Arsenal). I'd like to see Stambouli-Mason tried soon.

So basically I think Poch understands the balance that is required, but no pairing of our CM quartet (or quintet if you include Dembele) is quite there yet
 
Gutter Boy said:
Mainly to diagonal balls over the top of our CB playing at RB. That's not really to do with the CMs
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It's also a symptom of the system Poch plays. He wants the full backs to bomb on and provide the width when we are in possession, so any team with any sense immediately looks to play the ball into the chanels as soon as they regain possession from us anywhere in their own half.

The thing is, without the full backs bombing on, this system doesn't work going forward. So you can't just fix it by saying 'tuck in a bit lads'. It's about weighing up the positives nad the negatives. Once it all comes together the positives should heavily outweigh the negatives though.
 
Pirate55 said:
The seemingly one constant this season is the double DM pivot. Yet our defence seems as fragile as ever.

Is it really working for us? We seem to have only one "proper" dedicated DM in Capoue, yet he seems to go awol as much as any of the others. All the others have various strengths and weaknesses ( or should that be weaknesses and strengths) and are "much if a muchness" IMO. With two DMs is there too much likelihood that they leave covering to the other one?

What is certain is the back four are hopelessly exposed to the long diaganol ball. Is this a function of us still playing too high a line? Are they all just too slow, too poorly positioned or just too damn weak. Our players don't seeem to have any speed, strength or stamina. Have we seen any lung busting runs at the end of games a la Terry recently?

Is it that Poch just can't get his instructions across? If that is the case, then it is really really worrying. If his instructions to players are anything like his interviews, then I am really not surprised they are confused.

Also, what has happened to the high pressure? Have we given up on it , as it doesn't appear to be happening either? Our fitness level at this point in the season is of great concern to me.

What do others think is the problem in defence?
Click to expand...

IMO the only time we have played double pivot is the Dembele/Stambouli partnership from the Europa matches and we abandoned that and went a flat 3 halfway through the match last night (which didn't help). It works quite well in my opinion and should give a solid platform for the for the front four to play off and Dembele or Stambouli occasionally joining in the attack. I like this approach and IMO it is not the system at fault for the slow transitions. It is the movement or lack thereof of the players in front which is the inhibiting factor IMO.

In the league though we don't use a double pivot and the same defensive issues appear to be there for the most part. IMO it is the space in front of the fullbacks that is killing us. Either Chadli gets back in front of the left back or we have a 2 on 1 (like the City match) or the left CM gets pulled out of shape (like Bentaleb in the Liverpool match) or the space is used to knock a diagonal to head of the striker (like Benteke in the Villa match). Chadli or whomever plays as LAM cannot be the support striker as exposes the left side too much. Rose cannot handle the left side on his own.
 
braineclipse said:
What's the definition/description of a double pivot?

For me that term described what we had under AVB with Dembele and Paulinho quite well. Currently, not so sure.
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Very similar to our double pillock with Jenas and Zokora
 
Dembele and Stambouli would be our best midfield pairing if we aim for it. I think they'd work tremendously well.
 
Mumorn said:
Dembele and Stambouli would be our best midfield pairing if we aim for it. I think they'd work tremendously well.
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What do you think that they have as a pairing that other options don't and why have they been unable to dominate a game in the cups so far?
 
milo said:
What do you think that they have as a pairing that other options don't and why have they been unable to dominate a game in the cups so far?
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I think they compliment each other best, just like Sandro and Dembele did. I think it's a little harsh to say that they were unable to offer dominate games, they've been paired what, once?
 
Mumorn said:
I think they compliment each other best, just like Sandro and Dembele did. I think it's a little harsh to say that they were unable to offer dominate games, they've been paired what, once?
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They've played together in the last two cup games. I wouldn't read too much into Brighton because they are not going to play many games with so little to do defensively (although they still went to sleep a few times) but I thought that they were very hot and cold on Thursday.

I think that Dembele's poor passing is going to count him out of making it in Poch's team. I think that he wants two passers at the base and Dembele does not fit this.
 
double pivot can't do its job if the back 4 lacks coordination.

kaboul shouldn't be part of it, lest leading it.
 
metalgear said:
double pivot can't do its job if the back 4 lacks coordination.

kaboul shouldn't be part of it, lest leading it.
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Eh? Isn't that like saying the full-backs can't get forward and add width if the striker isn't doing his job and putting chances away?:?:
 
metalgear said:
double pivot can't do its job if the back 4 lacks coordination.

kaboul shouldn't be part of it, lest leading it.
Click to expand...

What about Thursday? Was he guiding them telepathically? Vertonghen is just as bad. Finding a suitable partner for Fazio should be a top priority as Dier isn't ready yet.

Before it is brought up: Being captain has nothing to do with organising a defense.
 
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