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The all new Striker thread..

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not having a dig, you appoint yourself as supperior - Ive asked a question.

All of which you have described is not IMO versatility, its being a simple striker. Which is what I thought.
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I didn't appoint myself as superior - simply gave you an advise to watch him 'more' and possibly begin to appreciate his qualities as a player - he is a special talent lost in the pool of extra-terrestrial Spanish national team ability and would start for just about any other nation in the world including Germany and possibly Argentina. I'm not his agent either so to be quite honest - couldn't care less if you do or don't

In addition - a 'simple' striker imho, is Defoe or even Bent - Llorente is much more than that in just about every aspect of his game, imv
 
Kingdawson said:
Can beat an opponent from a standing start = Hmmm i guess sometimes he gets the better of opponent but are you saying he's good at this generally?
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I don't think he has Ronaldinho's feet but has enough skill to go past the defender and then uses his body (very well in fact) to bully his way in front of him and off he goes - i.e. he pushes his way past him like a buffalo.

Okay, I'll give this one to Ade - he did well last season on many occasions
 
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ArcspacE said:
I didn't appoint myself as superior - simply gave you an advise to watch him 'more' and possibly begin to appreciate his qualities as a player - he is a special talent lost in the pool of extra-terrestrial Spanish national team ability and would start for just about any other nation in the world including Germany and possibly Argentina. I'm not his agent either so to be quite honest - couldn't care less if you do or don't

In addition - a 'simple' striker imho, is Defoe or even Bent - Llorente is much more than that in just about every aspect of his game, imv
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You speak about him in absolutes, as an authority - and then tell me I need to watchi him more/more closely. Presumably you feel better qualified to comment. What is that if not thinking your view is superior?

By simple striker, I mean, simply a striker. A good one, no doubt, but a striker. In narrow terms of the phrase, as opposed to "all round forward" or such.

So where does this idea of versatility come from?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
So where does this idea of versatility come from?
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I have now described in numerous posts further back, my personal observations and analysis of his game - repeating those any further would be futile in this particular debate as you seem to have already made your mind up from what I can only guess is limited viewing experience. If you truly believe someone like him is limited striker or simply a striker (i.e. Gomez, Bent, Hunterlaar, etc.) - nothing I can say or share can change your mind.
 
You simplay have not described versatility at all, let alone enough to back up the idea he is more versatile than Adebayor who can play a number of different roles convincingly.

You have simply described a very good striker, as in - a goalscorer - a central forward - not much else.

Can Llorente run the entire width of a defence, pulling them around and linking play like Ade does?
Can Llorente come back into midfield and help build attacking movements like Ade does?
Can Llorente provide assists like Ade does?
Can he play from the channels like Ade does?

Adebayor, by his nature (aided by his athletisism) is a very versatile forward. For Llorente to be more versatile he must display a hell of a lot more than being simply a good striker.

And dont take the term simply as derogatory, its not - its descriptive of a player not having many facets to his game - not a slight on his quality.

From what I have seen Llorente is a very good striker. As a finisher I think he is excellent. Versatile? Not at all from what Ive seen.
 
ArcspacE said:
Authority as in any other post on here being in the rank of personal opinion and nothing more?

I didn't tell you by the way - I 'advised' you - i.e. use it or lose it
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You told me in very certain terms what Llorente is, which was contrary to my belief. You then told me to watch him more closely - implication being I would see what you were talking about if I did. Clearly you felt your view was right, mine was wrong. I have no issue with his - I simply asked - as a percieved authority - why?

Im interested in the player, I have nothing against him - I just do not subscribe to your description of him. Like I said, educate me.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Can Llorente run the entire width of a defence, pulling them around and linking play like Ade does? yes

Can Llorente come back into midfield and help build attacking movements like Ade does? to a large extent although would be on par with Ade, imv

Can Llorente provide assists like Ade does? yes

Can he play from the channels like Ade does? yes
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2 of the above he actually does better than Ade, imv

It is you who works in absolutes, I'm afraid having made your mind up on a specific topic rendering any other input irrelevant since it differs from your intial view point
 
Not at all. I have a view based upon what I have seen, someone posts something very different to that - I want to understand why.

Instead of actually educating me (which I enjoy, and I do learn from this place continuously) you have got attitude about the matter and skirted around the point.

Thats fine, its your perogative, but Ive no idea why you have reacted so to being pushed on the topic a bit. Clearly you are a big fan of the guy*, I thought it would be a worthy discussion.


*Sensing a similar situation to your Berbalove
 
As I already mentioned - my personaly analysis of his game (my 'education') was given few posts back - there is nothing more I can possibly write further to that short of a signed written affidavit declaring he's a versatile striker, imho.


EDIT

And just to add - seeing that wording won't / can't change your view - my best 'advice' would still be to watch him more
 
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ArcspacE said:
2 of the above he actually does better than Ade, imv

It is you who works in absolutes, I'm afraid having made your mind up on a specific topic rendering any other input irrelevant since it differs from your intial view point
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Arcspace he really does not do none of that better than Ade mate. I agree with a lot of your previous descriptions on him but better at

Moving into channels like Ade ? HELL NO

linking up play like Ade? oh no, oh hello no

come back into the midfield and help build attacks? no no no no no

provide assists ? well he'd get a fair share of assists i think but beating Ade's assist total last season? nah don't think so.




One thing i'll say is that you might think a goalscorer with excellent finishing will provide more to the team than a player like Ade which is fair enough. I can't knock you for valuing certain things over other attributes. Personally i'd much prefer a player like Ade and i'm willing to sacrifice 5 or so more goals a season in return for what Ade gives us.
 
Kingdawson said:
Arcspace he really does not do none of that better than Ade mate. I agree with a lot of your previous descriptions on him but better at

Moving into channels like Ade ? HELL NO

linking up play like Ade? oh no, oh hello no

come back into the midfield and help build attacks? no no no no no

provide assists ? well he'd get a fair share of assists i think but beating Ade's assist total last season? nah don't think so.


One thing i'll say is that you might think a goalscorer with excellent finishing will provide more to the team than a player like Ade which is fair enough. I can't knock you for valuing certain things over other attributes. Personally i'd much prefer a player like Ade and i'm willing to sacrifice 5 or so more goals a season in return for what Ade gives us.
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You see, this is where I fundamentally disagree on this topic. Basically you've descrived Gomez above - an goal machine and little else. Llorente works much harder than that - In some aspects he can be comparable to Drogba.

For me he's an excellent focal point who distribures the ball really well around him, drags men, opens us spaces and some of his flicks are Berba-like. His link-up with Muniain in particlar last season was exceptional. Too often Ade drifts wide, gets chocked and we have to go back down the flank, etc. His main advantage would be price and the fact he's been with us before and wouldn't need a adjustment period
 
ArcspacE said:
As I already mentioned - my personaly analysis of his game (my 'education') was given few posts back - there is nothing more I can possibly write further to that short of a signed written affidavit declaring he's a versatile striker, imho.


EDIT

And just to add - seeing that wording won't / can't change your view - my best 'advice' would still be to watch him more
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What you have described is a player that can do everything Ade can do, and in most cases better. That is certainly not the impression I have from Llorente at all, I think he is an entirely different player type than Ade. I will indeed watch him more, Im interested to see all these things he does that Ive never seen before.

Though I suspect even after Ive watched him more Ill still be wondering what on earth you are seeing.

I do believe he could be a real success in an AVB side, very much in the way that Falcao was - but I do not believe he is anything like Adebayor, let alone a better version of him.
 
ArcspacE said:
You see, this is where I fundamentally disagree on this topic. Basically you've descrived Gomez above - an goal machine and little else. Llorente works much harder than that - In some aspects he can be comparable to Drogba.

For me he's an excellent focal point who distribures the ball really well around him, drags men, opens us spaces and some of his flicks are Berba-like. His link-up with Muniain in particlar last season was exceptional. Too often Ade drifts wide, gets chocked and we have to go back down the flank, etc. His main advantage would be price and the fact he's been with us before and wouldn't need a adjustment period
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Actually you're right in saying that i'm making it seem like he's simply a goalscorer and nothing else but that's not my intentions. Llorente has far more to his game than goals and is a far far far (i can not emphasise the word 'far' enough) better all around player than Gomez is.
 
Is there not a problem with trying to get Llorente as Bilbao don't want to sell due to the Basque thing?

I'm sure I've read that a few times.
 
stinkfoot said:
Is there not a problem with trying to get Llorente as Bilbao don't want to sell due to the Basque thing?

I'm sure I've read that a few times.
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They'll sell but i guess they'd be reluctant being that it would be a very hard task replacing him with a Basque player that's even half the player llorente is. Javi martinez is rumoured to be off to Bayern so they are willing to cash in if it's a great offer.
 
The Basque 'thing' only works with buying / incoming players

Would mostly come down to him wanting (or not) to leave the area for another club better yet a completely different culture. He's a legend down there.
 
Their transfer policy matters in that it makes him even more valuable to them, likely to make him more expensive than if he played for another Spanish club of similar size. Since it's almost like playing for a national side for many of the players it makes it less attractive to leave the club, so it makes it less likely that he will come and a lot less likely that he will force a move - especially to us. That again could make him more expensive.
 
no Llorente chat can be complete without ArcspacE's favourite Fernando image

n_athletic_de_bilbao_fernando_llorente_torres-2421337.jpg
 
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