The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

[zin]

Is the a blog on it?

a few years ago we used to be playing all over the world, now i do not see that as much unless it is just i have missed them.

http://www.windycoys.com/ is an excellent blog on our youth. Under August 2011 you will find the Eurofoot..

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I think loaning them out when we do is the perfect age. Unless they are understudy to someone who is absolutely brilliant in their position I'd expect a player of the required quality to be a first team regular by the time they are 21. If they haven't done it by then, I'd expect they never would (unless they're a GK or as stated previously understudy to a world class pro).

 

[zin]

Not In Squad

JORDAN ARCHER (Bishop's Stortford) 27.03.2012 vs Hyde (H) 0-1 (L) Conference North (Round 35) Out injured, missing only the fourth game of his loan spell, as new signing Aldi Haxhia took his place and had little to do, conceding from a penalty. Both Jordan Archer and Phil Anderson were sidelined due to injury. Remember our goalkeeper having one save to make other than the penalty 8 mins from time? The keeper did what needed to be done..

Not In Squad

STEVEN PIENAAR (Everton) 27.03.2012 vs Sunderland (A) 2-0 (W) FA Cup (Quarterfinal Replay) Cup-tied for the replay and now misses out completely on a Wembley semifinal with both Spurs and Everton.

Unused Sub

KUDUS OYENUGA (St Johnstone) 28.03.2012 vs Inverness Caledonian Thistle (A) 1-0 (W) Scottish Premier League (Round 31) Unused sub for the eighth time in nine games.

 

[DanishWhite]

I am not sure if there is such a thing as the right or wrong age, generically speaking.

Surely that is up to the individual player.

Also I am not sure our youth coaches such as Sherwoord and Co are any better for e.g. Harry Kane and tom Carroll than the full time manager and staff of a Championship club like Millwall or Derby. As for players going into League 1 and lower, those are the really young players along with the ones, who will probably never ever become PL players anyway like e.g. Parrett and Obika.

I am a big fan of the present loan policy. Not sure about the reserves league, but the loans give players first team senior football.

Obviously, I'd like things to be even better. In er perfect world we'd only ever loan players eligeble to play for our U18's to greater london clubs like Reading, Charlton, Millwall, Crystal Palace and West Ham (LOL) and have them home at least once a week doing training with their peers.
In reality though, no one sollution is perfect. One thing is for sure: For the likes of Caulker, Townsend, Smith and Carroll training with inferior players of same age and playing U18's, FAYC and Reserves games develop them sweet f*ck all.

 

[jimmyb]

It's a flawed system, in my view. We should be sending out players at around 20/21 (if needs be), after they are nearing the end of their development. Sending 18/19 year olds out to lower league clubs to play inferior football on inferior pitches with inferior players under the guidance of inferior coaches is a nonsense. WE should be controlling their development at that stage and WE should be employing the best youth and development coaches around to do so. Not Tim fudging Sherwood, but people with proven track records. Absolving responsibility for players to Football League clubs then expecting them to somehow become Premier League players is, frankly, delusional.

I haven't watched the youth team many times this season, due to a lack of time, but the decline in the level of player we are producing over the past couple of years has been utterly depressing. At one stage, we had managed to produce a youth team squad spread over a couple of year groups that had an excellent minimal level of technical ability, with balance, quality and variety of characteristic. Now, that is gone.

What has changed during that period? The period that produced the likes of Townsend, Caulker, Carroll, Mason and Smith (note: proper homegrown players at the club pre-16, not hyped talents shipped in from other clubs - real youth development). Well, we have lost an overall technical director in Comolli, lost an excellent pre-16 youth skills coach in Ricardo Moniz, abolished the reserve team leaving young players that can't secure loans with meaningless (even more so that reserve games, before anyone says it) training ground matches and appointed a manager who (for all his supposed West Ham youth 'credentials') actually has very little interest in development of young players.

The whole system needs reworking, otherwise we will skip a whole generation again and be back to Barnards rather than Caulkers, and it's not going to happen under Redknapp and Sherwood's watch, that's for sure.

If there has been a decline in the quality of kids coming through the youth system over the past four years, I doubt that it has anything to do with the arrival of Redknapp or the absence of a technical director.

The academy coaches and staff are essentially the same as they were before Redknapp's arrival (Moniz left before Harry arrived and while Comolli was still at the club). And the young players (that you believe to be of an inferior standard) now coming through were brought to and primarily developed by the club under Comolli's and Arnesen's watch.

That's not to say that I don't share some of your concerns that Redknapp is not one for long term thinking - which might have an adverse effect on the youth system in the future. It's just that there isn't a case to be made for cause and effect yet.

 

[zin]

I don't believe Harry has much input on how the academy runs, I think they are two separate entities, I recall when we were linked with that Zambian left-back Harry denied knowing anything about it - here are his quotes:

Harry Redknapp is baffled by reports claiming that Tottenham Hotspur have signed Zambia teen sensation Emmanuel Mbola.

'I don't know him,' said the Spurs boss. 'We had two kids here from Nigeria training, but I don't know anything about a boy from Angola (sic).

'Maybe the academy have brought him in, but he certainly is not training with the first team.'

There was a good post on how the academy runs a while back. I found it here:

http://www.thegoalposts.com/showthread.php?t=79124

It's an interview with John McDermott our academy manager, long read but worthwhile if you have the time. Basically says how Alex Inglethorpe teaches the U-18s to play in a certain way. Funnily enough bankrupt you were one of the interviewers!!!

Being asked to conduct these interviews was a real privilege for us both, as we both take a keen interest in the U18 side and the brand of passing, attacking football that Alex Inglethorpe has got them playing.

Q: Finally, could we talk specifically about Alex Inglethorpe’s influence? Something the fans often talk about is whether someone like him has the opportunity to rise through the ranks at a club like Spurs and make it to first team coach or manager. It doesn’t seem to happen that often these days, where someone takes that path up through a club. Do you think it’s possible that he may move up to reserve manager at some point?

JM: Is that a promotion though? I personally think, in Chris Ramsey, we have got the best under-9-16 coach in the country, and I think with Alex we’ve got the best under-18 coach in the country now. Is Chris Ramsey going to be an outstanding manager at Macclesfield? That’s not his skills set. His skill set is doing what he does now. Alex’s skill set? I think he’s outstanding with the 17-21 year old age group, and if him and Harry were to flip jobs…who knows?

One of the reasons I got Alex in, and when I first spoke to Chris, I wanted a commitment from them that this is something I want them to specialise in. I want you to be the best youth coach - and I don’t necessarily see it as a stepping-stone. What Alex needs is a different skill set to Kevin Bond or Joe Jordan or Harry Redknapp. I would like to think that Alex, Chris and myself are getting our job satisfaction from watching Jon Obika step out, or Dean step out and not thinking “I hope now the phone rings and I can go to Milton Keynes”. That’s why I try to bring those staff in - they’re not using this just to be promoted, or the perception of promotion…

Although individuals like Frank Arnesen and Damien Comolli are typically the focus of both praise and criticism, as far as the successes/failures of player production and procurement at academy level go, we got the strong impression that John McDermott is one of, if not the, most important cogs in the academy machine. If this current group fulfils the potential that they undoubtedly have, McDermott will deserve as much credit for the achievement as anyone else, along with other relatively unsung contributors, such as Chris Ramsey and Alex Inglethorpe.

Q: So you didn’t feel the need to replace Ricardo, because training generally now is following those kind of lines?

JM: Yes, I think that was always Ricardo’s view as well. It wasn’t about ‘Ricardo Moniz’, it was about the method, and influencing and indoctrinating our coaches. As I said, he’s gone but his methods remain.

 

[braineclipse]

Another very good post zin. thanks

 

[WookieD]

I can't see how anything with our actual youth set-up has actually changed. Inglethorpe and the rest of the team are still in place and Tim Sherwood only gets hold of them when he manages the Next Gen Cup. I don't see any problem there.

As for the "Young Prefessionals", I cannot for the life of me think why anyone would want to continue with Clive Allen. He may have been a playing legend, but nothing good came of him managing our reserves, it was a wasteland in which nothing grew, literally.

Regards to the fear of a reduction in skill, Tom Carroll is probably the most technically gifted academy player we have produced since ENIC bought the club and players like Coulthirst and Dombaxe seem every bit as technically talented as Townsend et al did at this point. Maybe there is an arguement that Mason should have done/be doing better, but that seems down to injury more than anything else.

The main point to me seems to be that anyone who we are really focusing on, will be kept at Spurs for as long as we have competitive games for them and then the second half of the season they are sent to gain practical experience. A maximum of 5 months away from the club, during which time we can bring them back for review whenever we want.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Seems like PSG have signed up for the next 3 years.

http://www.psg.fr/en/News/003001/Article/57532/PSG-sign-3-year-NextGen-Series-deal

 

[DubaiSpur]

Grr...Inter won the damn thing, and their coach is promoted to head coach of the first team. But this is the same Inter we tore to utter shreds in a 7-1 humiliation in the group stages. If only we hadn't fielded that under-age bloke. Whoever made that mistake is probably still getting roasted by the management. I hope so, anyway.

 

[ArcspacE]

Caulker targets game time


Defender ready to fight for his place at White Hart Lane next term

Last Updated: March 29, 2012 4:34pm

The 20-year-old defender has made 19 top-flight starts while on loan at Swansea this season as Brendan Rodgers' side have confounded doubters and taken 39 points from their opening 30 games to sit tenth in the table.

His form has led Spurs boss Harry Redknapp to say he has "big plans" for the player on his return to his parent club, but the defender wants to play games.

Caulker told WalesOnline.co.uk: "I feel like I've really progressed this year and I personally think I'll go back to Tottenham a better player and ready to fight for my position.

"I always felt the key thing for me to continue my development was to play games and that's happened at Swansea. I don't want that to stop and I'm sure I'll sit down in the summer and see where I'm at - but if I go back to Tottenham next season I want to be playing."
Steven Caulker Quotes of the week

"I think I've improved from the first month or so of the season and I've really enjoyed learning my way with Swansea.

"I always felt the key thing for me to continue my development was to play games and that's happened at Swansea.

"I don't want that to stop and I'm sure I'll sit down in the summer and see where I'm at - but if I go back to Tottenham next season I want to be playing."

Contribution

Caulker - who is ineligible for Sunday's game against Spurs, which is being shown live on Sky Sports 1HD - praised the contribution Rodgers has made to his progress, saying: "I feel I've taken my game up a notch this year and grown as a player and that comes from working under Brendan this year.

"He's a great coach for the team but also for individuals and he's really helped me develop as a player at this level."

While the Swans are just a point short of the magic 40-mark usually needed to guarantee Premier League safety, Caulker wants Rodgers' side to push on between now and the end of the season.

He added: "We've come a long way but we know we still have things to improve on and we want to show that between now and the end of the season.

"We want to carry on with the journey."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/7635518/Caulker-targets-game-time

 

[Howard Webb]

Grr...Inter won the damn thing, and their coach is promoted to head coach of the first team. But this is the same Inter we tore to utter shreds in a 7-1 humiliation in the group stages. If only we hadn't fielded that under-age bloke. Whoever made that mistake is probably still getting roasted by the management. I hope so, anyway.

true, it was Andrea Stramccioni's first game in charge of the team when we stuffed them. They won every game after that ( 7 i think ).

Andrea who??

 

[DubaiSpur]

true, it was Andrea Stramccioni's first game in charge of the team when we stuffed them. They won every game after that ( 7 i think ).

Andrea who??

It seems to be a trend across Europe now to appoint B or even C team coaches with little or no top-flight experience. Guardiola's success kicked it off, I think, and now chaps like Stramaccioni and Luis Enrique are picking up top jobs on the balance of probability that they might be the next Pep.

On that basis, I think we'll be looking at 'Sherwood' stencilled on the manager's door come 2012.

Or Clive Allen. Oh, Lord. Now I'm worried.8-[

 

[Howard Webb]

It seems to be a trend across Europe now to appoint B or even C team coaches with little or no top-flight experience. Guardiola's success kicked it off, I think, and now chaps like Stramaccioni and Luis Enrique are picking up top jobs on the balance of probability that they might be the next Pep.

On that basis, I think we'll be looking at 'Sherwood' stencilled on the manager's door come 2012.

Or Clive Allen. Oh, Lord. Now I'm worried.8-[

i think its about player power myself. The players blame the coach now as with AVB, so why get someone expensive and experienced? Let the players decide the tactics and best styles, let the coach organise the kit and holidays. Even Redknapp alluded to it the other day, saying the players couldnt care less about him. And in a way, it correct. But its a funny trend.

 

[WookieD]

i think its about player power myself. The players blame the coach now as with AVB, so why get someone expensive and experienced? Let the players decide the tactics and best styles, let the coach organise the kit and holidays. Even Redknapp alluded to it the other day, saying the players couldnt care less about him. And in a way, it correct. But its a funny trend.

I don't agree at all there mate (I realise it's tongue in cheek). The only team to really fall foul of player power is Chelsea, and they're hardly successful for it!

 

[DubaiSpur]

Perhaps you're right. The coach is increasingly becoming the figurehead, with real decisions made by the players in many cases. But if that's the case, who eventually gets to make decisions for the group? I mean, the role of 'captain' in football is already a vastly diminished one compared to other sports, while the role of 'manager' is more overstated. Perhaps we'll see a reversal of that.

Though I personally hope not. Playing Football 'Captain' 2015 is going to be a poor substitute for SI's current gem of brilliance.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

There is no Academy game next week as it is the Easter break but they will be going to Dusseldorff in Germany to compete in a tournament. I would have gone but for the Norwich home game.

good news right there, not happy about us losing at home to ipswich but then it is all about the players development at this stage.

 

[zin]

I'll get round to doing the midweek updates but here's a David Button blog. I actually enjoyed making this one, hope you do too.

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/entry....11-12-Leyton-Orient-Doncaster-Rovers-Barnsley

Promising, highly rated young keeper and childhood Spurs supporter who joined the Spurs academy as a full-time scholar in the 2005/2006 season at the age of 16 and has been out on loan 13 times.

Having signed a new contract until 2011 on 28 Dec 2007, he made his competitive debut in the 2007/08 season at the age of 18 with Grays Athletic in the Conference, having joined the club on a one-month loan deal on 10 Jan 2008. Although he made an impressive debut he was on the bench for the next game and there were no more games played over his loan spell. On 27 Mar 2008 he joined Rochdale in League Two however did not make an apperance, being on the subs bench seven times.

He joined four different clubs on loan in the 2008/09 season, firstly re-joining Grays Athletic, who were still in the Conference, initially for one month but this was extended twice until the end of December, playing 15 games. Grays fans really rated him, calling him an excellent player with exactly the right attitude. He even wrote a letter to the Club Secretary thanking the club for giving him the opportunity to play first-team football.

On 16 Jan 2009 he joined AFC Bournemouth on a month's loan in League Two, making four appearances and two on the bench. Unfortunately the loan spell was not successful, with the Bournemouth fans happy to see the back of him as he made some bad mistakes, which lead to goals being conceded, including failing to control a backpass, conceding a looped header and diving over a shot. His loan was not extended but he joined League Two side Luton Town on 06 Mar 2009 on a month's loan as cover, being on the bench for all seven games, including a Johnstone's Paint Trophy Final victory. During this time he represented the England U-20 team, for the one and only time on 31 Mar 2009, in a friendly against Italy. His final loan spell of the season was an emergency one-month loan with Dagenham & Redbridge on 17 Apr 2009 where he played three of the four remaining games of the season, performing well and conceding just the one goal as Dagenham's first-choice keeper made a return for the final game. Daggers fans considered him a very promising young keeper, a decent shot stopper and the only part of his game that worried them was his ability at claiming a cross. Once again he wrote a letter to the club to thank everyone at Dagenham for his time there.

Having turned 20 he was ready for the 2009/10 campaign and it was announced on 22 Jul 2009 that he would join League Two club Crewe Alexandra until January, however he was recalled three games into the loan spell on 20 Aug 2009, to cover for the injured Heurelho Gomes who was out for two weeks. He was on the bench three times during this period and made his senior Spurs debut and only appearance so far, coming off the bench in the 81st minute of a Carling Cup tie against Doncaster Rovers on 26 Aug 2009 for Carlo Cudicini. He returned to Crewe on 01 Sep 2009 and played a further seven games for them before once again being recalled on 27 Oct 2009 to cover for the now injured Cudicini, making two appearances on the bench. Crewe boss Dario Gradi was not happy about this, stating he did not want a situation anymore where the man they are relying on in goal can be recalled at a moment's notice and declined to take the young stopper back again. Not much information is available on his peformances for Crewe but it seems to have been much more successful than his Bournemouth loan the season before. On 20 Nov 2009 he joined League Two side Shrewsbury Town on a one-month loan spell which got extended twice to the end of the season. This was one of his most successful loan spells to date, playing 26 games and only being on the bench on three occasions and was only recalled a game before the end of the season due to an injury scare to Heurelho Gomes. Shrews fans were very impressed with him, saying how he was the best keeper they had since Joe Hart, possessing all-round talent, how communication was a big part of his game and that he was of at least Championship quality. Off the back of this, with only one year remaining on his contract, he was rewarded with a new contract at Spurs on 28 May 2010 until 2013.

As the 2010/11 season came along so did recently relegated League One side Plymouth Argyle on 03 Aug 2010 with a season-long loan. This spell was again mostly a success, even though Plymouth were relegated again, and has been the first and only season so far where he has spent time on loan at only one club. He made 30 appearances and a further seven on the bench with his spell being disrupted a couple of times by injuries (six weeks during Sep/Oct and five weeks during Nov/Dec) but everytime he was back from injury he was straight into the first XI. He did lose his place to Romain Larrieu on 26 Feb 2011 due to uncharacteristic errors behind a leaky and ever changing Plymouth defence during a series of defeats, until he won it back on 05 Apr 2011. During this time there was mutual respect between him and Larrieu, with the latter being full of praise about him for the way he performed during a difficult season for the Pilgrims, calling him positive and clued up and not reacting negatively at being dropped. Plymouth fans were delighted with him, saying how his goalkeeping skills and off the field personality had been top notch and that he really cared about the club.

In 2011/12 he joined a League One side again in Leyton Orient for half a season until 07 Jan 2012 but unfortunately suffered a shoulder injury in his second game which kept him out for the next 20 and didn't get back into the first XI when he finally recovered. He was recalled 6 days early from his loan spell for a step up in division with Doncaster Rovers on 01 Jan 2012, initially for an emergency one month loan spell, which was extended for one more month. Although his loan spell was well-received with the fans it did not get extended further as Rovers re-signed Wolves keeper Carl Ikeme on loan and veteran keeper Neil Sullivan was back to fitness. It turned out Rovers were reluctant to offer him an extension because emergency loan rules dictate that he could only have stayed at Doncaster for another month. On 19 Mar 2012 he joined Barnsley in an emergency one-month loan deal, which will cover six games, to stand-in for second choice keeper David Preece however it turned out that first choice keeper Luke Steele also suffered an injury and so he is getting some more game time and already earning positive reviews.

Having last played for a Spurs XI side against QPR on 13 Dec 2011 he remains hopeful that he has a long-term future at Tottenham. He has been quoted as saying that if Spurs still have plans for him he would be delighted to stay, but if not, he will have to look elsewhere. He has known over the last couple of years that he hasn't been ready to play in the Tottenham first team, but feels he is gradually getting there. With Brad Friedel and Carlo Cudicini only having until 2013 on their contract and getting older, he sees there will be an opportunity there for somebody.

 

[zin]

Button, Jansson, Archer, Naughton, Bassong, Pienaar & Obika all got 90 minutes over the weekend. Pienaar got an assist for Everton's second goal in a 2-0 win.

Corluka still out injured and Caulker was ineligible to play against us.

Townsend and Kane started but were subbed off in the second half.

Dawkins and Oyenuga only got a couple of minutes each off the bench.

Bostock and Carroll were unused subs.

Ranieri, Mason and Falque nowhere to be seen although Falque did get 80 minutes in an U-21 game again yesterday and scored a goal.

 

[Spaceman]

now bostock not getting minutes in league 2?