milo
Jack L. Jones
What evidence is there that we are hiring people from different angles?
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Team Baldini vs Team Timmeh - power struggle
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
What evidence is there that we are hiring people from different angles?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Do you think if it was Baldini's choice, that out of all the people in world football he could have chosen, he would have gone for Tim Sherwood? Nothing against Tim at all, merely saying that for one, he simply wouldn't have been hand picked by Baldini to work hand in hand together to carry out a plan that is laid out through him and entrusted towards the coach of his choosing.
Number 2, Sherwood's philosophy is very different from the types of managers Baldini has worked with in the past. Baldini has tended to hand pick managers that play possession football and not transition football. AVB is clear on his style and Sherwood is clear on his. Obviously we will never have clear, quoted evidence until months after one of them leaves the club and gives a 'I would have done this differently' interview, but I don't think it is a stretch whatsoever to say that Tim isn't really a Baldini man. He's a Levy man, everything we have read from every reliable source up until this point suggests that is the case.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I've got no idea who Baldini recommended and as far as I know, neither does anyone on here.
I doubt that we sacked AVB with the intention of appointing Sherwood but the board collectively might have decided that he was the best available option.
In all walks of life you have to work with people that you haven't chosen. I don't see why people think that this is more of a problem in football than any other area.
With regards to Baldini's preferred playing style. This is the first time that he has held this type of position in England. Maybe rather than being a devotee of a single style of football, he is more pragmatic and adapts his preferences to suit a league.
Have you listened to the 2nd Captain podcast I linked to on page 2? What they had to say about Baldini and AVB falling out was very interesting.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Was this them saying in the podcast that Baldini wasn't a fan of AVB's methods once he saw them, or the guy that said players didn't really like AVB's 'eccentric way of viewing football'? Either way, I don't see why their claims are any more worth listening to than the story that started this thread, or the ones that said Chelsea players liked his training methods but didn't like the man.
From a personal perspective I don't buy the 'Baldini saw AVB's methods and was turned off' as if he had no idea what those methods were in the 2 years previous that they were trying to work together. Besides, Baldini is the newcomer to the club, AVB had been here a year, and most other stories that have been more credible have been backed up more than once, where as these two stories appeared from nowhere and no one else really mentioned them to my knowledge. And again, I find it hard to believe that Baldini was so keen to work with AVB for at least a year previously (during which time he would have taken references and understood enough about his methods to want to hire the guy) only to then suddenly not like the methods once he saw them. It appears to be one of those nonsense stories that tried to piggyback off of bad form at the club but doesn't hold up the slightest bit of logical scrutiny.
And again, no one knows anything does sure really, not unless there are very basic, easy to understand quotes in a story. But it doesn't mean we can't put some various obvious pieces together to draw a pretty realistic picture for ourselves. Of course the board decided Sherwood was the best option, because they hired him. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he probably wouldn't have been, if the decision was totally Baldini's, the choice that would have been made. It just suggests the board are raking into account other consideration than what Baldini's preference would be, and whilst that isn't a problem in itself, as Sherwood may have been the best option baring in mind constraints that we are not privy to, I don't think it sends out good omens for Baldini's, or the continental structure's, time at our club.
It's a problem in football as opposed to any walk of life because we are trying to implement a structure where there is a clear plan running through the club, and where by we get the long term benefits by doing so. If the DoF isn't aligned with the coach, there's not much point in the system. If the coach does want a scout that the DoF doesn't, that represents a disconnect when the DoF is supposed to be implementing a scouting system, setting up a playing style that runs through the club and providing the coach with the players to enact that style.
I think Baldini with us has been / will be reduced to a negotiator, a deal maker if Sherwood remains. And if Baldini remains under that's arrangement, I can't imagine it will be for too long. Again, no quotes to back this up but it's my personal opinion based on what we see folding out in front of us. If Baldini picked his own coach, I'd have a lot more confidence that the continental structure will last as it would have been intended upon inception. What I feel is that Levy has decided to see how this season goes. If Tim does well and gets top 4, I think he gets more control over the club, an improved deal, and Baldini goes. If Tim performs anything below excellent, we bring in Van Gaal and he and Baldini build this club in the way the continental structure is supposed to be used.
It's the only thing that makes sense to me considering all the information we do know. I don't believe for a second Baldini has decided to alter his playing preferences because he has been given Sherwood. I thinks he's taking a nice and easy paid 6 months, knowing he either returns next season to build the is club or he goes off to some other project. It would cost Levy too much to sack him now anyway and I think he wants to keep Baldini around to keep his options open. Either Tim lives up to his own hype and delivers what he says he can or we go for LvG when the World Cup is over. There's no other reason why Levy would spend 6 hours with LvG only to the job to Tim the next day.
metalgear
Luka Modric
i also don't believe the "avb ****ed off everybody" rumour - probably something the club sent out. a number of the the players for instance, openly supported avb.
not sure what ****ed levy off so badly to sack AVB in a hurry, despite the trashings we had key injuries, are still bedding in new players and yet still not far from top 4 - so it had to be something else.
if it were baldini's instigation then i'd say he was doing his job (rightly or wrongly), however if it were something started by Tim Sherwood, taking advantage of his "old boy" status, then I would consider that out of line.
hope to read about this in AVB's autobiography someday.
not sure what ****ed levy off so badly to sack AVB in a hurry, despite the trashings we had key injuries, are still bedding in new players and yet still not far from top 4 - so it had to be something else.
if it were baldini's instigation then i'd say he was doing his job (rightly or wrongly), however if it were something started by Tim Sherwood, taking advantage of his "old boy" status, then I would consider that out of line.
hope to read about this in AVB's autobiography someday.
Kingdawson
Banned
GB...you said the DOF only works if the manager picks out the DOF (similar to what happened with AVB and Baldini)...you've also said Baldini is by all accounts a "smooth, clam and decent guy"...so can you tell me why it didn't work?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Levy didn't give it time. AVB would have rode the storm (like Ferguson in 1990) and gone from strength to strength.
(Actually I think it best when the DoF appoints the coach, but the reverse can work; the worst is if the chairman appoints both in isolation)
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
It has been reported that the relationship started to break down as far back as last season when we didn't get Moutinho. I heard a rumour that AVB got a dressing down so to speak for criticising the fans (after the Hull match I believe?).
You can't use injuries as an excuse, every team has them.
Daisuk
Dimitar Berbatov
Yeah, Christian Gross would have too. Not to mention Juande Ramos. Damn, we should've given those guys more time. More time - the key to all that is glorious in football, regardless of who or what you are giving more time!
ALtottenham_hotspur
Jamie Redknapp
Yeah, Christian Gross would have too. Not to mention Juande Ramos. Damn, we should've given those guys more time. More time - the key to all that is glorious in football, regardless of who or what you are giving more time!
I admit I like AVB and some part of me like Gutter Boy wishes we would have stuck with AVB to see if he turned it around. I still think there is a good manager in AVB
What I find strange and it only ever applys to managers, everyone always says give them time. I'm sorry but for me thats rubbish, managers are like players you have good ones and bad ones, if you have a bad player you sell him or release him. And the same should apply for managers, I imagine some managers can talk a good game and thats why they always end up with a job(Harry).
The modern game is results, results, results you dont get time implement a project or plan, that should be handled by your Director of football, he should look after the scouting, youth setup and tempting players to your club. The only other manager than Ferguson to completely change a club is Wenger. 838 managers have been appointed at clubs since he took over Arsenal proving long term management doesnt work. Thats why I give credit to Emirates Marketing Project they have appointed Pellegrini a 60 year old manager, if they are very lucky he will be around until he's 70, more likely at 65 he will retire.
I wouldn't be that ****ed if balidini goes. The reason I wanted him was to end Levy's schambolic ways of dealing at midnight on deadline day. Surely there's other lower key candidates who can get the deal done once sanctioned but also had no say in matters. Basically a specialist sort of football super lawyers?
I remember looking at baldinis record at previous clubs. He likes to spend an spend big. In my few lamela was the wrong signing. We're not ****ing Madrid and it was always going to be a gamble. He'll be gone in the summer. I hope to **** we get at least 20ish for him.
Then there was the rest of the 80:spend on 10 million pound utility players who if being honest apart from some utube clips no one had a f**kin clue who they were.
I remember looking at baldinis record at previous clubs. He likes to spend an spend big. In my few lamela was the wrong signing. We're not ****ing Madrid and it was always going to be a gamble. He'll be gone in the summer. I hope to **** we get at least 20ish for him.
Then there was the rest of the 80:spend on 10 million pound utility players who if being honest apart from some utube clips no one had a f**kin clue who they were.
Craig_J
Mido
Because the philospphy of if at first the tactic doesn't succeed, then try it again, and again, and again, and again, and again.... is a real sign of progression.
I'm sure when the going got tough for Fergie he thought 'let's keep all of this the same... oh no, another thrashing'
metalgear
Luka Modric
we'll never know for sure, but i thought that in avb's system it was clear what we were lacking, and i'm guessing that he was one transfer window and a few players away from a really solid squad. if this was the case then it would seem that avb wasn't going to get his targets. but really imagine if we had moutinho and conceicao in the team..