Squad not good enough...or unable to play a different style?

[Diamond Lights]

Honestly, I would take Fabianski over Lloris these days. I would take their CBs over ours, Rice and Soueck would arguably get into our team at CM and Bowen I would take over Lamela and possibly Moura. That is damning of how we haven’t progressed our squad because for the past few years there would only be one player at most you would have said might get anywhere near our team.

Of course it’s on Mourinho to get more out of our players, but when a lot of the same people are still here who haven’t got any better that must be increasingly difficult. Lloris, Sanchez, Dier, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela,Winks...That’s quite a list of players who have been involved a long time and are still getting regular games. You go back to other clubs squads 3-4 years ago and I bet there isn’t another club who has the same amount of active players still involved now. It has been massively mismanaged, and I’m not sure who is ultimately to blame but it stems way beyond Mourinho even if he hasn’t helped himself....

Agree with all of that and the buck stops at Levy's door, but then we have his defenders on this forum too rushing to defend him. "We built a stadium". Yeh, but when Arsenal built a stadium they also turned over players, bought and sold, think they spent at least £10m a summer on players, we went 18 months without a signing. And when the previous manager warned we need a painful rebuild, Levy knew best, and decided we didn't. Proven wrong again.

 

[StephenH]

Don't get me wrong Bergwijn been poor, i fail to believe however a 23 year old Dutch international who's a League winner can be written off at 23. Jamie Vardy was playing for Fleetwood at 25.

I think other managers who focus on attacking play would get far more out of him. Rodgers is getting some incredible turnaround from Harvey Barnes. I'll be the first to say Berg's not delivered, but it's unfair to write off an attacking player under a manager renowned for not focusing on attacking play.

There may possibly be a player there in Bergwijn but it's not showing ATM. Vardy analogies aside he needs to get a wiggle on sharpish.

 

[Diamond Lights]

There may possibly be a player there in Bergwijn but it's not showing ATM. Vardy analogies aside he needs to get a wiggle on sharpish.

But you have to agree he's not got a manager that focuses on attacking play, so it's hardly surprising a young attackign player is struggling. Son and Kane are world class and make it up as they go along, you wont get that from Bergwijn but doesn't mean someone else can't get more from him.

 

[Jordinho]

Agree with all of that and the buck stops at Levy's door, but then we have his defenders on this forum too rushing to defend him. "We built a stadium". Yeh, but when Arsenal built a stadium they also turned over players, bought and sold, think they spent at least £10m a summer on players, we went 18 months without a signing. And when the previous manager warned we need a painful rebuild, Levy knew best, and decided we didn't. Proven wrong again.

Or Poch was extremely picky and refused any player we actually could get.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Or Poch was extremely picky and refused any player we actually could get.

Are there any links to this as i often see this quoted but never seen any decent links to the story? Has a reputable journo posted these confirmations?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or Poch was extremely picky and refused any player we actually could get.

I believe Poch saw what we could afford and judged that they would be no better than he had, so chose not to rock the boat

 

[glasgowspur]

I believe Poch saw what we could afford and judged that they would be no better than he had, so chose not to rock the boat

Why spend money on not improving, keep it until you can use it to improve.
Didn't work out but was a reasonably sensible way to go.

 

[Raziel]

Are there any links to this as i often see this quoted but never seen any decent links to the story? Has a reputable journo posted these confirmations?

Glenn Hoddle has on record insisted that Levy offered Poch players in that window
Ally Gold (club's mouthpiece journalist) has also validated it

None of us were in the room, but the backstory is Poch got gun shy after a few of his previous choices didn't work out and he wasn't taking a risk on some of the potential targets the club offered.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Glenn Hoddle has on record insisted that Levy offered Poch players in that window
Ally Gold (club's mouthpiece journalist) has also validated it

None of us were in the room, but the backstory is Poch got gun shy after a few of his previous choices didn't work out and he wasn't taking a risk on some of the potential targets the club offered.

Robbie Keane said it too. He knew who he had been offered

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Why spend money on not improving, keep it until you can use it to improve.
Didn't work out but was a reasonably sensible way to go.

I thought it at the time
But yep we know it’s not worked out well
If we knew who he was “offered” I guess we could judge better

 

[glasgowspur]

I thought it at the time
But yep we know it’s not worked out well
If we knew who he was “offered” I guess we could judge better

I would be more wary of judging the picks now because it became obvious that Poch was wanting to change how we played.
He may have been looking for a position rather than a player that would fit in with how we had been playing.
Does that read right? I've had a brainfart in the middle there and not sure I'm explaining myself properly

 

[Raziel]

I would be more wary of judging the picks now because it became obvious that Poch was wanting to change how we played.
He may have been looking for a position rather than a player that would fit in with how we had been playing.
Does that read right? I've had a brainfart in the middle there and not sure I'm explaining myself properly

Hindsight might say just the refresh might/would have been as important as the quality of incoming players.

 

[Grays_1890]

Squads alot better than it's showing, the idea it isn't just doesn't wash for me

I don't think Jose management of the squad is very good at all TBH. Vinny had one start against Chelsea recently and is being judged in some quarters as not good enough? Impossible to know based on the minutes in my opinion BUT what I do know is better to play a striker against Brighton than none at all??

Playing Toby against Marine and the Austrian Truck Drivers Association which means he can't play in the league means we have a constant rota of Dier and Sanchez which seems to continue the cycle of mistakes. I would say far better to have Sanchez in the EL and then offer more flexibility to play Toby in league who can then partner Rodon or Tanganga in the CB situation, something you probably wouldn't do with either of the brothers grim.

Having your trusted lieutenants in Moura, Lamela and Stevie is well and good but if the results are not changing and non of them are actually contributing to the goals column or they are working hard because they have been the ones guilty of giving the ball away then maybe you mix that up too? Funny enough we looked alot better in the last two games keeping the ball with Bale and Alli.

If Lloris is in a crisis, drop him?

Facts are what he is trying is failing him, we would have love nothing in the last 12 games giving Rodon and Toby a chance to form a partnership in the league, actually may have gained alot, it's only the manager that can change these things



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[Baleforce]

Agree with all of that and the buck stops at Levy's door, but then we have his defenders on this forum too rushing to defend him. "We built a stadium". Yeh, but when Arsenal built a stadium they also turned over players, bought and sold, think they spent at least £10m a summer on players, we went 18 months without a signing. And when the previous manager warned we need a painful rebuild, Levy knew best, and decided we didn't. Proven wrong again.

Since building the stadium Arsenal have been in a steady decline and not won anything either, if we've fudged it up they certainly did.

 

[Grays_1890]

Agree with all of that and the buck stops at Levy's door, but then we have his defenders on this forum too rushing to defend him. "We built a stadium". Yeh, but when Arsenal built a stadium they also turned over players, bought and sold, think they spent at least £10m a summer on players, we went 18 months without a signing. And when the previous manager warned we need a painful rebuild, Levy knew best, and decided we didn't. Proven wrong again.

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...



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[Bishop]

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...



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Do you think Levy actually listens to fan opinion re which players to sign? If not and I think that is highly unlikely then what the fans think on forums or in pubs is frankly irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is what the scouting, transfer committee and ultimately the coach think of prospective players and how well they perform.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...



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Which comes back to the point at hand, our squad has enough quality to be higher than 9th, and the manager is paid the second most in the league to make that happen. No excuses to be where we are, performing how we are.

To have Harry Kane and Son in your squad and we have less goals scored than the entire top 6, and the same amount of goals scored as Aston Villa, speaks volumes of the managers approach.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Player spend has less link to success than people like to believe

If it did Sanchez for 35m and Jonny Evans at 3.5m would be having distinctly different seasons

The major issue at Spurs is not how much we spend but the traps of who we buy. Fans although not a part of the process prove how hard it is because we want the end products like Madison or Grealish but when linked with the younger version fans don't want them because they are "cheap" so what is the answer? Easy to look over the fence with hindsight when you are not emotionally involved with the club that spent games and time developing them. Ryan Sessengnon an example of that for me, 6 appearances and deemed not good enough, impossible to know either way.

We spent 27m on Stevie B and there are far more cost effective versions in the league at the minute.

West Ham went out and paid nothing really for Soucek and he walks in our side.

Could go on an on, it's not what we spend it who we spend it on and how quickly we are to chuck players into the no good bin...



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Soucek was £19m so more than Hojdjberg
And TBH both have been great signings for their clubs

the bargain was the right back
And of comparing Stevie maybe it would be with Benrahma who cost similar money and plays the same position

 

[billyiddo]

Bergwijn was a solid transfer that made sense - in a different team that works on attacking play on the training pitch he might even look a good player.

 

[Grays_1890]

Do you think Levy actually listens to fan opinion re which players to sign? If not and I think that is highly unlikely then what the fans think on forums or in pubs is frankly irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is what the scouting, transfer committee and ultimately the coach think of prospective players and how well they perform.

The point was clearly that fan opinion shows you exactly how hard it is and very much on wrong selections not lack of funds....

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