Spurs new investment

[SpurMeUp]

I said "In an ideal world I don't want an owner who desires profit from Spurs" you do understand what profit or profiting means right?

ENIC have already profited from owning Spurs via the massive increase in its valuation since they've owned it. As I think my post made clear I would love an owner for whom profiting from Spurs is not their primary concern, whereas with ENIC it's quite fair to say it is.

You wouldn't have preffered incompetent owners who kept Spurs a smaller less successful club outside of CL with no fresh stadium, would you? So this doesn't really make sense. A growth in the value of Spurs is no bad thing! It tends to be aligned with success.

And you failed to answer the question, what is it about the clubs you listed that their owners do that you prefer? Presumably things that Enic don't do?

 

[Bishop]

You wouldn't have preffered incompetent owners who kept Spurs a smaller less successful club outside of CL with no fresh stadium, would you? So this doesn't really make sense. A growth in the value of Spurs is no bad thing! It tends to be aligned with success.

And you failed to answer the question, what is it about the clubs you listed that their owners do that you prefer? Presumably things that Enic don't do?

No I told you want I want. In an ideal world I want an owner for whom making money from Spurs is not their primary concern. Is that difficult to understand? The growth in ENIC's portfolio has not been aligned to success.

I listed the clubs in my previous reply, you clearly aren't actually reading what i'm posting.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No I told you want I want. In an ideal world I want an owner for whom making money from Spurs is not their primary concern. Is that difficult to understand? The growth in ENIC's portfolio has not been aligned to success.

I listed the clubs in my previous reply, you clearly aren't actually reading what i'm posting.

So you don’t know what these other clubs listed do, that Enic does not.

And you can’t understand that an increase in the value of Spurs is aligned with success. For example, if we win the league every year and our value was doubled adding billions to the paper value of the club - you’d be upset Levy was ‘making money from Spurs’.

Nothing more to say.

 

[braineclipse]

With regards to backing the manager you have to make decision, are you manager led or are you club stratedgy led? You can't do both and you really can't even mix and match otherwise you end with a fudge that doesn't actually work. We have many times not brought in the players a manager has wanted so followed a club stratedgy there but then held on to players we could have sold, so manager led there. It's a fudge and it doesn't work. It's either or. I'm fine with either but I would prefer a DoF led plan, assuming of course that DoF is any good.

I'm happy going for young players, I've never really bought into the idea that you have to sign ready made superstars to be successful. A lot of time the smart clubs pick up those players before they become the certified player. However if that is the model then you have truly believe in, follow and execute it.

There is no point in hiring a Mourinho for example and then giving him the likes of Rodon or Berwijn. These are not the calibre of player he requires, they are not developed enough in their game and mental state for a Mourinho to work successfully with them. Mourinho is a manager who requires the finished article, he doesn't coach attacking stratedgy he leaves that for his higher talented and mentally strong attackers to do for themselves. He's the opposite of an Ange in that respect, it's total freedom and free thought in the final third. Which works well when you have the squads he had at Chelsea in the first and second stages as well as Inter and Real Madrid. Not so well at Spurs and Roma who just don't have squads so filled to the brim with absolute mental monsters aligned with deep technique.

My criticism here for the one who needs things laid out plainly is if I as a fan am aware of the methods and context within which a Mourinho or a Conte best function or truly function at all, shouldn't the people who run this club also?

My real grief isn't about money spent it's about the actual running of the football side of the business. A lot of that is related to how we've spent the money, what we have prioritised etc but ultimately the money side is inconsequential for me really if the basics aren't being done properly.

I think most successful clubs do mix and match. The manager isn't solely responsible for those decisions, but they're part of the decision making process and have a significant voice in that. As it should be imo.

If a manager succeeds at a club they typically get more influence/power over those decisions. That can be a good or a bad thing. If it's a bad thing it's a difficult thing to handle.

 

[Grays_1890]

No I told you want I want. In an ideal world I want an owner for whom making money from Spurs is not their primary concern. Is that difficult to understand? The growth in ENIC's portfolio has not been aligned to success.

I listed the clubs in my previous reply, you clearly aren't actually reading what i'm posting.

Surely though the portfolio increase comes as a result of the club trying to increase the revenue for which can be spent on the team i.e build a new stadium, it goes hand in hand no? yes it has not materialised into success on the pitch yet but surely its was the right way to do it based on the alternatives

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Surely though the portfolio increase comes as a result of the club trying to increase the revenue for which can be spent on the team i.e build a new stadium, it goes hand in hand no? yes it has not materialised into success on the pitch yet but surely its was the right way to do it based on the alternatives

I agree with Bishop
I also agree with you
It’s all intrinsic to each other
What I don’t get is the fans who don’t seem to understand that income/revenue doenst mean money to spend. That where different owners can help

Lewis is out of the picture now and his family may want an exit to take their money (it’s his biggest value investment with his least amount of cash in proportionately)

That where the equity injection can come and help

An extra £50m each window (within PsR) can make a massive… massive difference

We won’t get that with ENIC as there is no one to fund it.

 

[Grays_1890]

I agree with Bishop
I also agree with you
It’s all intrinsic to each other
What I don’t get is the fans who don’t seem to understand that income/revenue doenst mean money to spend. That where different owners can help

Lewis is out of the picture now and his family may want an exit to take their money (it’s his biggest value investment with his least amount of cash in proportionately)

That where the equity injection can come and help

An extra £50m each window (within PsR) can make a massive… massive difference

We won’t get that with ENIC as there is no one to fund it.

Well this is it

I assume if they were to sell 40% I would assume that money would be taken out by the Lewis family as thats 40% of their stake (or a variation there of)

Unless those investing wanted to put money in above that investment (I don't see it as they are also ROI merchants) then its not the golden dawn people think

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Well this is it

I assume if they were to sell 40% I would assume that money would be taken out by the Lewis family as thats 40% of their stake (or a variation there of)

Unless those investing wanted to put money in above that investment (I don't see it as they are also ROI merchants) then its not the golden dawn people think

I'm guessing someone or some beneficiaries of the Lewis family trust are looking to liquidate their share of ENICS interest in Tottenham.

Enic own just over 85% of Tottenham and DL has a nearly 30% interest in Enic. So that translates as DL owning 25% of Spurs Enic 60% and the minor shareholders 15%.

I just don't see DL putting any of his equity up for sale as the 25% level is an important threshold in private company ownership. Imo I think he wants to continue captaining this ship. And furthermore any outside investor coming in (unless it's a boss hog boehly type) will want him onboard for the expertise he brings.

One has to remember though that any outside investment largely goes to pay the person (people) selling that equity, so other guarantees will have to be sort regarding 'on top' injections (which, of course, can be loaded onto the club themselves, there are few Romans willing to swallow £100m a year...a Bloom is what you need)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well this is it

I assume if they were to sell 40% I would assume that money would be taken out by the Lewis family as thats 40% of their stake (or a variation there of)

Unless those investing wanted to put money in above that investment (I don't see it as they are also ROI merchants) then its not the golden dawn people think

That’s the worry
As I say, £50m a year for a few years added to the transfer budget would be a huge of spent well
Takes the budget up to £150m each season as a minimum id say
Would all come down to owner plans and aspirations

 

[DubSpur]

Well this is it

I assume if they were to sell 40% I would assume that money would be taken out by the Lewis family as thats 40% of their stake (or a variation there of)

Unless those investing wanted to put money in above that investment (I don't see it as they are also ROI merchants) then its not the golden dawn people think

It depends on the way the 40% stake is done. It could be 40% buyout of ENIC or it could be 40% in new shares and then that money is then used to invest directly into the club. I think it's more likely to be a mix of the two, but as I'm far from a financial expert I could be totally wrong.

 

[Grays_1890]

It depends on the way the 40% stake is done. It could be 40% buyout of ENIC or it could be 40% in new shares and then that money is then used to invest directly into the club. I think it's more likely to be a mix of the two, but as I'm far from a financial expert I could be totally wrong.

Yeh me either TBH, my point is merely I don't see the Lewis family giving the money to the club if the result of this move means their profits at the end are diluted, if that makes sense

 

[Lilbaz]

I'm guessing someone or some beneficiaries of the Lewis family trust are looking to liquidate their share of ENICS interest in Tottenham.

Enic own just over 85% of Tottenham and DL has a nearly 30% interest in Enic. So that translates as DL owning 25% of Spurs Enic 60% and the minor shareholders 15%.

I just don't see DL putting any of his equity up for sale as the 25% level is an important threshold in private company ownership. Imo I think he wants to continue captaining this ship. And furthermore any outside investor coming in (unless it's a boss hog boehly type) will want him onboard for the expertise he brings.

One has to remember though that any outside investment largely goes to pay the person (people) selling that equity, so other guarantees will have to be sort regarding 'on top' injections (which, of course, can be loaded onto the club themselves, there are few Romans willing to swallow £100m a year...a Bloom is what you need)

Tbf boehly had to get rid of the execs at chelsea after seeing the dodgyness in the accounts. He had to kop to it but wouldn't want anyone still working there that was involved when the case is heard.

 

[elltrev]

As an aside, I never really understand how football clubs are worth anything at all, given they are likely to never make a sustained profit.

Also I never understand why Levy gets criticised for not spending more, when he doesn't personally have cash to spend. If people want a chairman/owner who has a bit more cash to spend, fair enough. But lets not criticise Levy for not having £10s or £100s of millions to spend.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It depends on the way the 40% stake is done. It could be 40% buyout of ENIC or it could be 40% in new shares and then that money is then used to invest directly into the club. I think it's more likely to be a mix of the two, but as I'm far from a financial expert I could be totally wrong.

40% in new shares isn’t 40% of the club because your diluting everything
But the logic is what I assume would happen

 

[harr1984]

Even if 40% stake given to an investment company, surely there's a good chance they will still want to invest a decent amount into players? As they would be buying shares at a relatively high price, not like they would be speculatively buying at a low for an easy profit short to mid term profit, so to increase share price increased on field performance is needed to grow brand as most other off field avenues have been ramped up now?

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm guessing someone or some beneficiaries of the Lewis family trust are looking to liquidate their share of ENICS interest in Tottenham.

Enic own just over 85% of Tottenham and DL has a nearly 30% interest in Enic. So that translates as DL owning 25% of Spurs Enic 60% and the minor shareholders 15%.

I just don't see DL putting any of his equity up for sale as the 25% level is an important threshold in private company ownership. Imo I think he wants to continue captaining this ship. And furthermore any outside investor coming in (unless it's a boss hog boehly type) will want him onboard for the expertise he brings.

One has to remember though that any outside investment largely goes to pay the person (people) selling that equity, so other guarantees will have to be sort regarding 'on top' injections (which, of course, can be loaded onto the club themselves, there are few Romans willing to swallow £100m a year...a Bloom is what you need)

None of us know. But we can speculate!

There are rumors that Lewis' daughter is big fan. And the family probably don't need the money.

It is quite possible that the club are looking to raise capital - driven by Levy. The hotel and the investment into Ange's rebuild are both worthy of investing into. And any prudent CEO would be considering raising money for both.

The question is always, do valuations match? Is there value for investors? What are they seeking to take out? You'd love to find a billionaire who wants to contribute and have full access to the club, but none of the headache of running it. But such plaything arrangements must be few and far between. Most people who've made serious money worked hard for it, and won't just give up cash for fun.

 

[DubSpur]

40% in new shares isn’t 40% of the club because your diluting everything
But the logic is what I assume would happen

If new shares are issued for them to get 40% of the club then they own 40% of the club. Don't get how you would think it isn't 40% of the club?

 

[DubSpur]

Yeh me either TBH, my point is merely I don't see the Lewis family giving the money to the club if the result of this move means their profits at the end are diluted, if that makes sense

The value of the club would go up if the new shares are bought for say a billion and that billion is then invested in the club.
Probably not to the extent that Lewis wouldn't lose a bit on it, that's why I reckon it would be a mix of Lewis selling shares and a new shares issue.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If new shares are issued for them to get 40% of the club then they own 40% of the club. Don't get how you would think it isn't 40% of the club?

Because the shares they are buying would be coming from a smaller pot
The shares not owned by Enic are still worth 25% of the club and they won’t want theirs dilluted

 

[Jurgen the German]

Have a whinge, why not!

You said you wanted an owner who didn't take profit out the club. I simply flagged we do have that already. No point backtracking, moaning etc its in black and white a page or so back.

Quick question, why you don't direct your vitriol or frustration towards state-subsidised football clubs? Let me explain:

- You don't outline what is you want, just what you don't want. Which clubs have the types of owners you would like?

- Boil it down, and its trophies. As though life revolves around them and silverware will change your life. It won't. But when we get there it will be all the sweeter for the wait.

- Now the only way to have guaranteed trophies over the past two decades, is to have a club owned by an oil-rich owner with effectively unlimited funds. Yes 'pool crashed the party breifly, but couldn't sustain it.


Of course this approach is hopefully outdated and harder to get around the financial doping ruiles. We've seen Chavski trying to manipulate the rules, but failing to turn it into success so far. It is not clear what you want. I don't know if you know exactly. From the outside it looks a little bit like someone having a good ol fuking whinge!

To be fair he’s not whinging. I do think you’re projecting somewhat. He’s just presenting a different point of view to you and many others on here who would seemingly be content if we went another 16 years without a trophy provided we do things the right way so to speak. He’s also said many times before that winning isn’t the only that matters and that’s not why he supports Spurs but winning IS why you enter a competition in the first place. That’s why when the argument who is a bigger club etc comes up again no doubt many people will cite the stadium and CL appearances but conveniently leave out the lack of trophies which is what makes big clubs big clubs. That’s why I’m not having when people say United are a bigger club than Madrid. Literally no one engineers a move from Madrid to United but players have done it the other way round. When one club has 3 CL’s and the other has 15 there’s really no comparison.

We want owners that are great commercially but more importantly owners who make great football decisions which is not what we have got for a lot of ENIC’s tenure. Also owners that occasionally take a risk. Being financially prudent and responsible is lovely but being frugal to the level we are and have been has proven incompatible with winning, that’s not knee jerk, there’s 20+ years of evidence to support that.