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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Out of interest I went on Tommy Robinson’s Twitter page. Lots of videos from the last few days of groups of brown people (always labelled ‘Muslims’) attacking lone white people. Presumably it’s people counter-attacking the far right protestors / rioters. Either way, it was so interesting to see how the same events can be presented so differently to different audiences. We all live in our little echo chambers, endlessly having our preconceptions reinforced. I honestly think that lots of the rioters genuinely think they’re good people who are protecting their country from bad people.

(To be clear, this is not me defending them. Just a dispassionate comment that it’s interesting how we’re all slaves to our little echo chamber to some extent).
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yes. I was watching sky news last night and they said the same thing, junior doctors are protesting for more pay. Protesting is/should be non-violent. This is just an excuse to smash things up and attack innocent people.
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It should be thought out and clearly display it's message, contextualised with why and what the direction of travel should be.

Sometimes violence has to be involved.
See the peasants revolts, the suffragette movement etc.
 
elltrev said:
Out of interest I went on Tommy Robinson’s Twitter page. Lots of videos from the last few days of groups of brown people (always labelled ‘Muslims’) attacking lone white people. Presumably it’s people counter-attacking the far right protestors / rioters. Either way, it was so interesting to see how the same events can be presented so differently to different audiences. We all live in our little echo chambers, endlessly having our preconceptions reinforced. I honestly think that lots of the rioters genuinely think they’re good people who are protecting their country from bad people.

(To be clear, this is not me defending them. Just a dispassionate comment that it’s interesting how we’re all slaves to our little echo chamber to some extent).
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If we've learnt anything in the last 20 years it's you can't trust anything in social media and you have to be very suspicious of the way the mainstream outlets handle subjects.
 
Scoopage said:
You are completely right. I live in Austria and the FPÖ, their far right party, have been part of a ruling coalition twice since 2002. Orban has been the PM of Hungary since forever, the Le Pens since I can remember, the Afd in Germany have risen in power since the Migrant Crisis. Russia have "weaponised" Refugees, look at the external EU Polish Belarusian border and with the help of the likes of Farage are destabilising the west.
Brexit can be blamed for a multitude of brick but the rise of the far right in Europe is ridiculous
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This is what happens when a skewed interpretation becomes the dominant message (probably because Ben keeps it to a few sentences which reflect his views whereas I try to explain my perspective on a broader landscape in many sentences - writer's curse!)

Anyway, let's hope I don't bore you too here...

Yes, I agree, it would be ridiculous to suggest that before Brexit the Far Right in Europe didn't have any numbers; that was not at all what I said.

What I said was that Brexit had helped furnish the situation whereby agents dedicated to dividing and conquering Europe - Putin - saw the perfect opportunity to do so. You acknowledge all of that yourself.

The potential conditions have bubbled under the surface for a long time, yes, but the catalytic event for all the brick we're seeing globally has been Brexit. Without it, I am prepared to say that Bannon could not have run the Trump playbook in 2016. And the dominos just kept falling as previously quieter factions found a voice (aided by the waves of misinformation and internet manipulation).

Your last line speaks of 'destabilizing the west' which is PRECISELY the point I was making. Part of that is absolutely fanning the flames of far-right rhetoric.

Facists have always existed, but the facts will tell you that Brexit offered oxygen to those who want to divide and conquer not just Europe but the world.

(For the record, what I think is ridiculous is how a nuanced and carefully articulated series of points were distilled into one inaccurate comment. This (sadly) is an example of the world we live in. This refers to the origins of this discussion BTW and not specifically your post).
 
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monkeybarry said:
Rare that we agree on politics, and especially Brexit, but this is spot on.

These riots are just a different version of Brexit for some (note "some" - not all) as an outlet for frustration. Whether that be an honest frustration about crime, about immigration or about their lives just not being where they want them to be.

Much like many (again, not all) argument for Brexit that fit in with the above, it's "right argument, wrong target".
Capitalism/neo-liberaliam is a big impact.
So was the blinkered argumenting that attempted to shut down poorly educated views for decades.
Followed by the abject corruption of the last 15 years of Tory Govt, and especially post Brexit.
Add an underestimate of the lens through which people now views their lives (Facebook, X, online clickbait media, etc, instead of The Sun, The Mail, The table at the local over a Carling Black Label).

Brexit was a symptom of the impact of years of the above.

Many EU countries have similar concerns (of varying degrees) but wouldn't dream of destabilising the bloc because they know what it's like to have jackboots on their land, not just in the air.
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The 'Brexit was...' discussion has been done and dusted.
I think most people even at the time knew it was a vehicle of misguided frustration at the slow grind to the working class from the Thatcher/Reagan era (it was certainly written here -by me among others) so that in and of itself is an established perspective many agree with.

Again, let me reinforce the point I was making, which is Brexit has allowed such tools of destabilization to be much easier to spread and deploy. That is if you believe there are entities such as Putin's Russia who have longstanding plans in continuing to do so.

Here's something to think about though; as we sit here discussing this, immigrants and Asians are getting kicked and punched in the face whilst parents are letting their kids skip down the street singing 'p***s out'.
The dialectic is real.
 
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Lost Mango said:
It would have happened eventually, whether Thatcher and Reagan had been elected or not. Not absolving them of the destruction they enabled but like Trump they are a conduit rather than the cause.
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This discussion has been had many times. Happy to engage again.

There is a hindsight inevitability that makes this view faultless logic.

There was also a brutality in the execution of those times which (quite frankly) unless you lived through them would not quite make sense.
 
elltrev said:
Out of interest I went on Tommy Robinson’s Twitter page. Lots of videos from the last few days of groups of brown people (always labelled ‘Muslims’) attacking lone white people. Presumably it’s people counter-attacking the far right protestors / rioters. Either way, it was so interesting to see how the same events can be presented so differently to different audiences. We all live in our little echo chambers, endlessly having our preconceptions reinforced. I honestly think that lots of the rioters genuinely think they’re good people who are protecting their country from bad people.

(To be clear, this is not me defending them. Just a dispassionate comment that it’s interesting how we’re all slaves to our little echo chamber to some extent).
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If you want to go down a real rabbit hole, look at the twitter hashtag #civilwar. It's absolutely Trump levels of insanity. I was actually shocked to find people in this country quite so thick (considering we have compulsory schooling to 16; maybe its all Russian bots).
 
I'd expect to see a lot of people going on to remand.
That'll really give a shock to the billy big bollox to see what prison is actually like.
 
Diamond Lights said:
really disturbing time.

Supporting England in the Euros, Team GB this week.

Now telling my mum to stay home, i'm worrying about walking home from the station after work.
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Lots of women have for years worried about walking home from work late at night for years.

Obviously not saying its right, but crime has always existed in this country.

People commiting crimes should go to prison. Not talking about people parking illegally but people setting fire to buildings with people in it deserve long sentences.

People robbing o2 deserve prison sentences and people robbing JJD sports shops very long sentences as they are both criminals and have disgusting fashion sense.
 
www.theguardian.com

Revealed: US neo-Nazi terror group aims to revive activities ahead of election

The Russia-based leader of the Base, which adheres to principles of accelerationism, seeks ‘A-team leader’ in US
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Before anyone jumps in with a baseless redefinition, I am not saying nazis never existed before last weekend, I am trying to make the wider point that agitators (such as Putin's Russia) see these times of global destabilization as a great time to stoke fires globally...
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yes. I was watching sky news last night and they said the same thing, junior doctors are protesting for more pay. Protesting is/should be non-violent. This is just an excuse to smash things up and attack innocent people.
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It's hard to tell if that was the initial aim. Had the police essentially legalised racist marches like the Met have for the last year, there might have been less trouble.

Obviously the correct response is for the police to stop all racist marches and not hide behind "There were too many of them" but cowards gonna coward.
 
scaramanga said:
It's hard to tell if that was the initial aim. Had the police essentially legalised racist marches like the Met have for the last year, there might have been less trouble.

Obviously the correct response is for the police to stop all racist marches and not hide behind "There were too many of them" but cowards gonna coward.
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Maybe they should have done it in the Mosley era you muppet
 
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