Repetitive bickering and point scoring about money and our transfer policy

[indianspur]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

I think that you misunderstand his motives for buying us. We were bought as a investment not a plaything. Anyone who expects ENIC to put money into the club is living in cloud cuckoo land.

i dont expect it. All im saying is that it would be nice if we had a billionaire who would for example give AVB 50 mill this summer to buy a couple of players. We have one of the best players in the world, a highly rated coach, we are so close to breaking the top 4 cartel, and yet everyone is sweating about CL qualification and the financial ramifications if we dont achieve it (reduced transfer budget, Bale becoming disillusioned and being tempted elsewhere)

 

[milo]

hmmmm success:-k.......one carling cup and one CL campaign in 12 years and if he decided to sell tomorrow he would probably walk away with over 300 mill in profit.....fair play, thats genius Mr Lewis =D>

They are investors not fans. I am sure that they will judge whether their tenure was successful by the profit they make rather than trophies won.

 

[indianspur]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

That's how business works. Success isn't just measured using trophies.

i know. Good for him. Genius as i said

 

[milo]

i dont expect it. All im saying is that it would be nice if we had a billionaire who would for example give AVB 50 mill this summer to buy a couple of players. We have one of the best players in the world, a highly rated coach, we are so close to breaking the top 4 cartel, and yet everyone is sweating about CL qualification and the financial ramifications if we dont achieve it (reduced transfer budget, Bale becoming disillusioned and being tempted elsewhere)

Personally I'd hate us to take the Chelsea/City route to success

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

i know. Good for him. Genius as i said

No, it's fairly simple. Nothing genius about it.

 

[indianspur]

They are investors not fans. I am sure that they will judge whether their tenure was successful by the profit they make rather than trophies won.

brilliant!! what a great investment they made. I hope at least they are happy

 

[indianspur]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

No, it's fairly simple. Nothing genius about it.

would you be bothered if Spurs dont win another trophy in the next 10 years?? or if we qualify for the CL lets say once in the same timeframe? seriously, are you ok with just being close but not quite there?

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

would you be bothered if Spurs dont win another trophy in the next 10 years?? or if we qualify for the CL lets say once in the same timeframe? seriously, are you ok with just being close but not quite there?

I would be bothered. I didn't say i wouldn't be.


However if it was due to injections from the owner i wouldn't really give a brick if we did win. It would feel hollow.

 

[indianspur]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

I would be bothered. I didn't say i wouldn't be.


However if it was due to injections from the owner i wouldn't really give a brick if we did win. It would feel hollow.

ok, fair enough

 

[chicken_badge]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

probably fcuk all compared to what he will receive when he decides to sell

fair play to the Mansours and the russian bloke at chelbrick from this point of view. They have pumped their billions into their clubs. Our billionaire is a tight fisted twunt with short arms and long pockets

Probably? No, I'm not interested in probably. I've asked if someone can tell us how much Joe Lewis has put in.
The problem is, people cast all sorts of opinions on the basis of "probably" but who is to say that their "probably" is accurate, too high or too low?

So, I ask again - does anyone know how much Joe Lewis has invested in the club?

 

[Jordinho]

Probably? No, I'm not interested in probably. I've asked if someone can tell us how much Joe Lewis has put in.
The problem is, people cast all sorts of opinions on the basis of "probably" but who is to say that their "probably" is accurate, too high or too low?

So, I ask again - does anyone know how much Joe Lewis has invested in the club?

2003: Enic Sports is injecting £4.5m into Tottenham Hotspur as part of a £15m fundraising to give the football club greater flexibility in January's player transfer market.

The company, which owns 29.9pc of Spurs, has also pledged to underwrite for free the remaining £10.5m of the share offer. In addition, Spurs plans to move from the official list to Aim to reduce regulatory costs and exploit the "beneficial tax consequences for individual shareholders".

A spokesman stressed that Spurs does not have any players in its sights. "The proceeds have not been earmarked at this stage for any specific purpose," the company said. "But with the funds in place, the board will be able to move decisively as and when opportunities arise."

Under the open offer of 60,000 convertible redeemable preference shares, holders will be entitled to a new £250 share for every 2,500 ordinary shares held. Each new share will be convertible to 1,562 ordinary shares from October 31, 2007.

As Enic is likely to raise its stake above the 29.9pc threshold, Spurs is applying for a waiver of the takeover code that would compel Enic to make a full offer. Spurs is believed to have chosen an offer rather than convertible bond because it is keen not to follow Leeds United, which is saddled with £80m of debt - £60m of which is a convertible bond.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2872434/Spurs-given-boost-by-Enic-share-deal.html

2009: Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy, the major shareholders in Tottenham Hotspur's parent company, Enic, are likely to be forced to commit more than £100m of their own cash in order to build the club's new stadium. That sum will fuel speculation that once full planning permission is achieved, the pair will instead cash in and sell the club.

A recent rights issue, which saw 30 million new shares placed on 21 August, raised £15m in cash for the club, a sum that will offset planning-application costs on Spurs' new 60,000-seat facility without impacting on transfer budgets. Enic underwrote the issue, with less than 7.5% of the new shares bought by third parties.

That meant Lewis and Levy had to pump in £13.9m of their own money, but it was by no means a bad deal for them. The rights issue was heavily discounted: shares were offered at 50p each, down from the market price of more than 80p. Now Enic's holding in Spurs has increased by more than 2% to almost three-quarters of the shares in issue.

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/16/tottenham-hotspur-digger

 

[Spursalot]

I don't think that's quite what Chicken was asking Jord.


That is the money they have invested into the club, but it's not money they have just given to the club to spend, like Chelsea and City do it. They have given the club money as a trade for shares. They themselves have gained from the transactions.


The second one looks like the precursor to taking the club private. three quarters is the amount needed to do it iirc.



At the end of the time owning the club, they will likely get money back from those transactions, as those transactions led to an increased percentage of club ownership.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Probably? No, I'm not interested in probably. I've asked if someone can tell us how much Joe Lewis has put in.
The problem is, people cast all sorts of opinions on the basis of "probably" but who is to say that their "probably" is accurate, too high or too low?

So, I ask again - does anyone know how much Joe Lewis has invested in the club?

I presume that you're talking about money invested into the club rather than money invested to buy shares off others?

ENIC contributed some £11 million of the £15 million Convertible Redeemable Preference Shares issue in January 2004.

They subsequently contributed 100% of the £15 million share placement in August 2009.

A total of £26 million pumped into the club, then.

Joe Lewis owns 71% of ENIC. Daniel Levy 29%.

So Lewis has invested £18.46 million into Spurs.

 

[chicken_badge]

From what you have posted, there's evidence that Lewis put in £15m at the start. But what about since then?
* players in?
* wages?
* other THFC staff?
* training ground?
* maintainance of WHL?
...would be the headline figures. But other stuff too I'm sure.
Of course there are other income sources, sponsorship, TV money, tickets.

My point is though that I can't see how anyone can criticise Lewis for not putting in enough money if you don't know how much he actually has put in! And there's no way of knowing what amount of money he could be choosing to invest but isn't.

The way I see it, it's not as if we have a Asimov or whatever his name is waiting in the wings ready to burn cash. Abrahmovich and Mansour are all well and good but their attitude is a bit nuts really . Financially it doesn't stack up so you have to be a bit mad or a bit vain to splash the cash like they have.

I'd probably happily welcome a lunatic like that if it meant we won trophies (or maybe not) but ill not criticise someone for just being sensible with their money compared to someone reckless. There are a lot, lot more bad owners and chief execs out their than the ones we have.

 

[chicken_badge]

Jimmy B -thanks that's a bit clearer. Any idea how much he could choose to invest though, disposable income so to speak?

 

[chicken_badge]

It's not as straightforward a quesion as it sounds he may be worth £6bn but does he have comparable projects which he has just thrown money at?

 

[jimmyb]

I don't think that's quite what Chicken was asking Jord.


That is the money they have invested into the club, but it's not money they have just given to the club to spend, like Chelsea and City do it. They have given the club money as a trade for shares. They themselves have gained from the transactions.


The second one looks like the precursor to taking the club private. three quarters is the amount needed to do it iirc.



At the end of the time owning the club, they will liely get money back from those transactions, as those transactions led to an increased percentage of club ownership.

Yes, ENIC got something in return for their investment. But the end result, in terms of squad building and stadium development, was still £26 million extra that wouldn't otherwise have been available.

Thing is, unless or until ENIC are sole owners of the club, without shares in return for their investment, there would have been no incentive for them to invest.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Probably? No, I'm not interested in probably. I've asked if someone can tell us how much Joe Lewis has put in.
The problem is, people cast all sorts of opinions on the basis of "probably" but who is to say that their "probably" is accurate, too high or too low?

So, I ask again - does anyone know how much Joe Lewis has invested in the club?

I'm sure its nothing, the same as the owners of Bayern, Dortmund, Arsenal and Barca have pumped in. But its 550m more than the Glazers at United and 350m more than Hicks and Gillett when they were at Liverpool

Why do fans feel entitled that their club should have some dodgy billionaire tinkling money into it?
Its gone from "we need a new striker" to "we need a new billionaire".

 

[Spursalot]

Yes, ENIC got something in return for their investment. But the end result, in terms of squad building and stadium development, was still £26 million extra that wouldn't otherwise have been available.

Thing is, unless or until ENIC are sole owners of the club, without shares in return for their investment, there would have been no incentive for them to invest.

Why would there be no incentive to invest until ENIC were sole owners? As long as they were majority shareholders they could appoint board members and pretty much run the entire company.


I didn't think they had 100% of the company yet.

 

[jimmyb]

Jimmy B -thanks that's a bit clearer. Any idea how much he could choose to invest though, disposable income so to speak?

I've no idea what is income is or what his liquid asset situation is. I wouldn't want to speculate.

But at one extreme end of the spectrum, there's no reason why he couldn't sell off all his other investments and property and invest every penny from the proceeds in the club.

Obviously, that's not going to happen, though!