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Ratings v Scum

braineclipse said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Whoscred.com has him down with 2 won headers and 1 block. That's pretty much how I remembered it too.
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But **** did not have many shots? What I do remember is he was in the box doing his job mostly. How well do you think Verts did or in fact the midfiueld in front of him in terms of offering the back 4 protection like ****'s midfield did?
 
Lloris 7 - Our MOTM; saved us from embarrassment
Walker 5 - Too many wrong choices; all he had was pace, and he didn't use that effectively
Dawson 4 - Too slow and just too many errors
Vertonghen 6 - Some classy touches but can't do everything on his own
Rose 5 - Ineffective going forward and too often caught out positionally
Capoue 5 - Seemed a bit overawed. Passing not up to scratch.
Paulinho 6 - Never really made an impact and seemed to fade away completely in the second half
Townsend 6 - Lively in patches but ultimately unable to link effectively
Dembele 4 - Looked half-asleep for most of the proceedings
Chadli 5 - Lots of work to do before he'll be a force for us
Soldado 6 - Some good movement but was feeding off the meagrest of sсrаps

Sandro 7 - Should have been on at the start of the second half
Defoe 6 - Did ok, but a stupid sub, IMO; was never going to be the answer
Lamela 6 - A chink of light at the end of what now looks rather a long tunnel
 
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Robspur12 said:
But **** did not have many shots? What I do remember is he was in the box doing his job mostly. How well do you think Verts did or in fact the midfiueld in front of him in terms of offering the back 4 protection like ****'s midfield did?
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I was being serious about agreeing to disagree mate, if you perceived this game as a game where Dawson won many headers and got blocks in then we saw the game completely differently. Discussing this in the context of Vertonghen and the protection from the midfield won't get us any closer to agreeing on Dawson's performance.
 
braineclipse said:
I was being serious about agreeing to disagree mate, if you perceived this game as a game where Dawson won many headers and got blocks in then we saw the game completely differently. Discussing this in the context of Vertonghen and the protection from the midfield won't get us any closer to agreeing on Dawson's performance.
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You missed my point that there were not many headers to win. But he did, mistakes, aside enough of what was required.
 
Robspur12 said:
You missed my point that there were not many headers to win. But he did, mistakes, aside enough of what was required.
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I must have missed where you made the point about there not being many headers to win.

Arsenal actually played a considerable amount of long balls up to Giroud as a result of our pressing. One of the things I think is required of a central defender whose strengths includes winning headers is to step up and challenge for those long balls when we force the opponents into making them.
 
This is going round in circles so best as BE says we agree to disagree. I can't break down the game minute by minute but I saw at least 2 important headed clearances and at least one block. Dawson's performance should be taken in the context of the whole teams which was below par but I guess it comes down whether the goal was a dawson or vertonghen mistake or both.
 
braineclipse said:
I must have missed where you made the point about there not being many headers to win.

Arsenal actually played a considerable amount of long balls up to Giroud as a result of our pressing. One of the things I think is required of a central defender whose strengths includes winning headers is to step up and challenge for those long balls when we force the opponents into making them.
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TBH BE I didn't feel Arsenal played that many long balls I thought they played out well from the back with Giroud going deep when we were in and around their box. I thought that both Cazorla and Ramsey were magnificent. didn't see much of the pressing you mention from our lot, much more from them tbh.
 
Robspur12 said:
This is going round in circles so best as BE says we agree to disagree. I can't break down the game minute by minute but I saw at least 2 important headed clearances and at least one block. Dawson's performance should be taken in the context of the whole teams which was below par but I guess it comes down whether the goal was a dawson or vertonghen mistake or both.
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It most certainly was not Vertonghen's mistake.

He clearly had control of where Walcott was and that he was offside. Rose had stepped up to put pressure on the passer (dubious decision imo), Walker was perfectly in line with Vertonghen.

Giroud then made a fairly straightforward run to the front post, a run Dawson didn't manage to track properly despite the fact that he was only deeper than the rest of our back 4 because he was tracking Giroud.
 
braineclipse said:
It most certainly was not Vertonghen's mistake.He clearly had control of where Walcott was and that he was offside. Rose had stepped up to put pressure on the passer (dubious decision imo), Walker was perfectly in line with Vertonghen.

Giroud then made a fairly straightforward run to the front post, a run Dawson didn't manage to track properly despite the fact that he was only deeper than the rest of our back 4 because he was tracking Giroud.
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I will have to watch it again but at least one of the footballer pundits disagreed with you. I must admit vertonghen seemed to be marking space as opposed to any one in particular. I will watch it again. One thing I will say is that you are over simplfying a tremendous bit of skill by giroud.
 
braineclipse said:
It most certainly was not Vertonghen's mistake.

He clearly had control of where Walcott was and that he was offside. Rose had stepped up to put pressure on the passer (dubious decision imo), Walker was perfectly in line with Vertonghen.

Giroud then made a fairly straightforward run to the front post, a run Dawson didn't manage to track properly despite the fact that he was only deeper than the rest of our back 4 because he was tracking Giroud.
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Agreed. You have two choices. Play the offside trap, or track the man all the way. Dawson did neither.
 
Robspur12 said:
I will have to watch it again but at least one of the footballer pundits disagreed with you. I must admit vertonghen seemed to be marking space as opposed to any one in particular. I will watch it again. One thing I will say is that you are over simplfying a tremendous bit of skill by giroud.
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At least the Norwegian studio pundits agreed that it was Dawson's mistake. One of them also made the point that when the attack comes down that side then it must be the left centre back (Verts) setting the offside line, not the right centre back (Daws). The right centre back can follow play and see his compatriot at the same time and thus needs to follow him. If it's the right centre back making the decision then the left centre back will be in all kinds of trouble trying to look over his shoulder to see where the offside line is being set whilst following play.
 
braineclipse said:
At least the Norwegian studio pundits agreed that it was Dawson's mistake. One of them also made the point that when the attack comes down that side then it must be the left centre back (Verts) setting the offside line, not the right centre back (Daws). The right centre back can follow play and see his compatriot at the same time and thus needs to follow him. If it's the right centre back making the decision then the left centre back will be in all kinds of trouble trying to look over his shoulder to see where the offside line is being set whilst following play.
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Yes, you could clearly see that it was Dawson who made the mistake there, Walker and Rose followed the line set by Verts, but Dawson fell off and played Giroud onside.
 
I thought that fault for the goal primarily lay with Rose and whoever the left sided defensive midfielder was in that play. Rose initially was covering Walcott but came off him towards the player at the ball. Effectively got caught in no mans land and Walcott had all the time in the world to get that cross in. The DM should have been tracking back and not leaving Rose in a 2 v 1 situation but Rose should have stayed with Walcott.
 
I have just watched it several times in slow motion on motd and agree that the mistake was Dawson playing Walcott onside instead of sticking with the line. The goal itself however, was still an exquisite piece of skill and movement by Giroud. The thing is these kinds of mistakes happen all the time when playing offside. Today it was Daws but it could so easily be Verts or Kaboul next time (any one remember Verts and caulker FA Cup vs Leeds?) But to say, as many of the posters on here are saying, he needs to be replaced because he lacks quality frankly is knee jerk.
 
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