Ratings v Scum

[elltrev]

Are you judging him on reputation? Did you not notice that at least four out of five were brilliant?

Yup, 10 of his 13 long passes were accurate. Some people will just say that his long passes were poor by default.

 

[elltrev]

Also, surprised by some of the comments that Capoue's passing is poor. I think he's certainly a better passer than Dembele or Paulinho. 89% completion today (better than Paulinho), and I thought a lot of good forward passes into feet ala Carrick.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/38439/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor

 

[Truth]

How bizarre - was watching the game (live) with another Spurs fan, and we both thought Capoue looked very good.

Some strong challenges, was the only one constantly showing the ball and moved the ball along nicely.

Wonder what you guys all saw that we didnt....appreciate sometimes it's easier to get a view of things when on TV/differing parts of the stadium.

 

[IulianSteaua]

How bizarre - was watching the game (live) with another Spurs fan, and we both thought Capoue looked very good.

Some strong challenges, was the only one constantly showing the ball and moved the ball along nicely.

Wonder what you guys all saw that we didnt....appreciate sometimes it's easier to get a view of things when on TV/differing parts of the stadium.

When you loose the midfield someone has to be blamed, of course he had some good passes but we can say that about all the midfielders... Spurs looked like a small team today and i am fairly neutral as i am a spurs fan not a fanatic... rose and dawson were poor today especially dawson, he was put under pressure by the lost midfield battle and he caved in, that's what i saw...

 

[Cotswold]

Its funny, but i don't buy this 'Townsend was our greatest threat' point. He cut in a couple of times and had speculative shots from 30 yards.
I still remain of the view that he is far from top 4 quality, and if you want to finish top four you have to have better players than him in these key positions.
UEFA and FA/League Cup player for me.

 

[charlietheyid]

Yup, 10 of his 13 long passes were accurate. Some people will just say that his long passes were poor by default.

Depends what you call accurate? the receiving player somehow touches the ball? in that case maybe...

But the receiving player might touch the ball but at what height and what can do with when receiving.

Dawson passes so hard its impossible to do anything. And its often in the air with our player being marked with three guys and losing the ball.

 

[jurgen lineker]

How bizarre - was watching the game (live) with another Spurs fan, and we both thought Capoue looked very good.

I felt exactly the same, got me thinking that Paulinho and Capoue could possibly be our first choice CM partnership, with thre more creative minded midfielders in front (In time Lamela, Eriksen and another). Big shame that he got injured, hopefully it' not too serious.

 

[Hotspur]

You're wasting your time mate. There were plenty of worse performances that daws just look at Capoue and Paulinho and for that matter AVB today

You are deluded

 

[Robspur12]

Depends what you call accurate? the receiving player somehow touches the ball? in that case maybe...

But the receiving player might touch the ball but at what height and what can do with when receiving.

Dawson passes so hard its impossible to do anything. And its often in the air with our player being marked with three guys and losing the ball.

Sorry that's nonsense. Those long balls move the play on quickly especially today when the midfield were so laboured and are generally brought down pretty easily. At least it is an option- the alternative is to play it short to a midfield that end up losing the ball.

 

[braineclipse]

Yup, 10 of his 13 long passes were accurate. Some people will just say that his long passes were poor by default.

Agreed. I thought his long balls, as often is the case, were quite good.

I think it's a slight case of blaming the outcome rather than the symptom. Our passing through the midfield wasn't working, obviously players like Dawson that can hit a good long pass will look for that option. People aren't happy about the long balls, blame Dawson.

Doesn't mean that he had a good game though.

Also, surprised by some of the comments that Capoue's passing is poor. I think he's certainly a better passer than Dembele or Paulinho. 89% completion today (better than Paulinho), and I thought a lot of good forward passes into feet ala Carrick.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/38439/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Agreed. He didn't start the game all that well the way I saw it, but he improved as the game grew on and wasn't the problem.

 

[Dayo]

Lloris 9
Siggy 3

 

[Robspur12]

Also, surprised by some of the comments that Capoue's passing is poor. I think he's certainly a better passer than Dembele or Paulinho. 89% completion today (better than Paulinho), and I thought a lot of good forward passes into feet ala Carrick.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/38439/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor

But his job was the holding midfielder today wasn't it? but tbh Arsenal broke so quickly and move so effectively he was still on the half way line when they were in and around our penalty area. The thing is the way Arsenal played today was not new. They have been playing the same way since we played them at the lane. They tore apart Fulham last week playing the same way. AVB got it horribly wrong today playing 4 midfielders who have not played in an NLD before and not used to the tempo. We had no guile and no decent threat on the arsenal goal other than speculative pot shots. Sandro and holtby would have been better alongside Dembele or Paulinho imo. Moreover he failed to react fast enough when it was obvious things were not working.

 

[Spur of the moment]

:lol:

What are you trying to tell us here? That dawson is good enough?

His passes are uncontrolable and end up with the opposition.

I have been saying for nearly ten years now that we need to upgrade or we'll carry on losing against the gooners like this. Today is no different.

Not necessarily. I'm simply asking for a fairer judgment of today's performance. I disagree that he was responsible for their goal. Despite throwing himself at the feet of Giroux he was beaten to the ball by a piece of exceptional skill. If you watch it again you'll see he anticipated Giroux's run better than Vertonghen who looked all at sea. He was unlucky not to get to the ball in time and imo was no more to blame for the goal than Lloris, who stood no chance from such short range.

As to your main point, no, I'm not convinced Dawson has the class to keep out Kaboul for much longer. I did acknowledge his dreadful faux-pas in my ratings earlier in this thread and am very aware of his tendency to xxxx-up on occasion.

Dawson strengths are his leadership, spirit, determination and never-say-die attitude, exemplified by a willingness to throw himself in the way when it matters. In this respect he and Kaboul are very similar, the difference being Kaboul is the more athletic and powerful and shows more poise on the ball. However, going forward out of defence Dawson's long diagonal out-ball has improved so dramatically in the last year or so i would contend it now plays a significant role as part of our attacking options. I just wish Spurs fans weren't so blinded b his past record in this respect and would acknowledge his vast improvement.

When it comes to goalmouth action at the other end, Kaboul is marginally ahead of Daws when it comes to scoring from corners but there's not that much in it. Kaboul's main strength going forward is he can make dramatic runs into the box although too often these end up achieving nothing. He is also much too fond of a pop-shot from long range but how many of these go sailing way, way over the bar? Fingers crossed we will have better options in dead-ball situations in Lamela and Erikson because I don't want to see Kaboul ever go near one from now on.

Like you, given his tendency to make errors at the back, I am mildly surprised that Dawson has survived thus far, but unlike you it would seem I am prepared to give him credit for the positives he brings to the table.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But his job was the holding midfielder today wasn't it? but tbh Arsenal broke so quickly and move so effectively he was still on the half way line when they were in and around our penalty area. The thing is the way Arsenal played today was not new. They have been playing the same way since we played them at the lane. They tore apart Fulham last week playing the same way. AVB got it horribly wrong today playing 4 midfielders who have not played in an NLD before and not used to the tempo. We had no guile and no decent threat on the arsenal goal other than speculative pot shots. Sandro and holtby would have been better alongside Dembele or Paulinho imo. Moreover he failed to react fast enough when it was obvious things were not working.

Bu they cold break so quickly as the gap between it forward (singular) and our midfield was so far there was solace for them to carry the ball

 

[Robspur12]

Agreed. I thought his long balls, as often is the case, were quite good.

I think it's a slight case of blaming the outcome rather than the symptom. Our passing through the midfield wasn't working, obviously players like Dawson that can hit a good long pass will look for that option. People aren't happy about the long balls, blame Dawson.

Doesn't mean that he had a good game though.


Agreed. He didn't start the game all that well the way I saw it, but he improved as the game grew on and wasn't the problem.

Agree it was not his greatest, but my point is he wasn't worse player in a poor team performance. And many posters on here have an agenda on here to replace Daws when he's not the biggest problem at the moment.

 

[BigL]

In a nutshell, Arsenal won because they

• had belief
• played as a team
• wanted it that much more, especially first half
• were faster and more direct in attack
• got everyone behind the ball when defending
• produced that critical bit of magic in front of goal

Conversely Tottenham lost because they

• made too many individual errors
• lacked the extra class in front of goal (too many wayward shots)
• lacked team cohesion (it'll come)
• lacked creativity going forward
• failed to defend in sufficient numbers
• failed to attack in sufficient numbers

Lloris 8 - no chance with their goal but superb stops and swift sweeping kept us in it. Spurs' MotM
Walker 6 - put himself about but doesn't have the class to match the number of shots he gets
Dawson 6 - not to blame for their goal, threw himself into challenges as always and produced some great diagonal passes that found their man, but marked down for ghastly possession foux-pas second half
Vertonghen 6 - looked a bit shaky at times, lost his man for their goal, not at his classiest
Rose 6 - all at sea for their goal, quite impressive otherwise but needs to improve his crossing
Paulinho 6 - worked hard without pulling up any trees. Not too sure about his shooting ability
Capoue 5 - too many misplaced passes and too easily caught in possession
Dembele 4 - for once very poor in possession; offered nothing going forward; deservedly subbed
Chadli 5 - stood off at times, also offered too little going forward
Townsend 7 - easily our greatest threat cutting in from the flank, two decent shots on target and some deft crossing into danger areas; disappointed he was subbed rather than Chadli
Soldado 5 - no service, but maybe could have done more to find it


Subs

Sandro 5 - looked off the pace
Defoe 6 - fought for possession and used it well
Lamela n/a - looks skilful

For me, great post. I'm encouraged by the fact that we played so poorly but only lost 1-0 and on another day could've had a draw at least.

 

[Robspur12]

Not necessarily. I'm simply asking for a fairer judgment of today's performance. I disagree that he was responsible for their goal. Despite throwing himself at the feet of Giroux he was beaten to the ball by a piece of exceptional skill. If you watch it again you'll see he anticipated Giroux's run better than Vertonghen who looked all at sea. He was unlucky not to get to the ball in time and imo was no more to blame for the goal than Lloris, who stood no chance from such short range.

As to your main point, no, I'm not convinced Dawson has the class to keep out Kaboul for much longer. I did acknowledge his dreadful faux-pas in my ratings earlier in this thread and am very aware of his tendency to xxxx-up on occasion.

Dawson strengths are his leadership, spirit, determination and never-say-die attitude, exemplified by a willingness to throw himself in the way when it matters. In this respect he and Kaboul are very similar, the difference being Kaboul is the more athletic and powerful and shows more poise on the ball. However, going forward out of defence Dawson's long diagonal out-ball has improved so dramatically in the last year or so i would contend it now plays a significant role as part of our attacking options. I just wish Spurs fans weren't so blinded b his past record in this respect and would acknowledge his vast improvement.

When it comes to goalmouth action at the other end, Kaboul is marginally ahead of Daws when it comes to scoring from corners but there's not that much in it. Kaboul's main strength going forward is he can make dramatic runs into the box although too often these end up achieving nothing. He is also much too fond of a pop-shot from long range but how many of these go sailing way, way over the bar? Fingers crossed we will have better options in dead-ball situations in Lamela and Erikson because I don't want to see Kaboul ever go near one from now on.

Like you, given his tendency to make errors at the back, I am mildly surprised that Dawson has survived thus far, but unlike you it would seem I am prepared to give him credit for the positives he brings to the table.

There are just not that many great defenders around. You forget that Kaboul has a tendency to have a brain fart and Verts imo is more a midfielder than centre half with his propensity to be out of position. Dawson is fine he needs to have better protection in front of him. He wins many headers and gets blocks in. He is the only out and out defender in the team and the best positionally. He is often the last line of defence with LLOris when every one else inc verts are up field. For fook sake if **** can make merte****ter good because they defend properly as a team then Daws will be fine if we offer him more protection.

 

[Spursalot]

[/B]


There are just not that many good defenders around. You forget that Kaboul has a tendency to have a brain fart and Verts imo is more a midfielder than centre half with his propensity to be out of position. Dawson is fine he needs to have better protection in front of him. He wins many headers and gets blocks in. He is the only out and out defender in the team and the best positionally. He is often the last line of defence with LLOris when every one else inc verts are up field. For fook sake if **** can make merte****ter good because they defend properly as a team then Daws will be fine if we offer him more protection.

Don't quite get the mertesacker reference. I think we'd be quite stupid to even attempt to play him in a high line. To me it illustrates that some defenders are suited to some systems and some are not.

He is fine, not sure where Kaboul is at yet, if it's the Kaboul of 11/12 i would promote him to the first team as soon as i could.

I do agree with the bolded bit though, when he ****s up the offside trap he is the last line of defence with Lloris.

 

[Robspur12]

Don't quite get the mertesacker reference. I think we'd be quite stupid to even attempt to play him in a high line. To me it illustrates that some defenders are suited to some systems and some are not.

He is fine, not sure where Kaboul is at yet, if it's the Kaboul of 11/12 i would promote him to the first team as soon as i could.

I do agree with the bolded bit though, when he ****s up the offside trap he is the last line of defence with Lloris.

What I meant was that Merte****ter imo is a worse defender with the turning circle of the titanic wedged up against the iceberg. But if you watch how arsenal have played recently they get bodies behind the ball so he is not isolated like Daws often is. Otherwise **** would concede more goals.

 

[braineclipse]

[/B]


There are just not that many great defenders around. You forget that Kaboul has a tendency to have a brain fart and Verts imo is more a midfielder than centre half with his propensity to be out of position. Dawson is fine he needs to have better protection in front of him. He wins many headers and gets blocks in. He is the only out and out defender in the team and the best positionally. He is often the last line of defence with LLOris when every one else inc verts are up field. For fook sake if **** can make merte****ter good because they defend properly as a team then Daws will be fine if we offer him more protection.

Do you think he did any of those things today?