Putin & Russia

[SpurMeUp]

You sound overwhelmingly positive about Russian influence. How do you feel about the Political stance taken by the US over Brexit?

Isn’t Biden on Irelands side and more pro EU unity? One thing the US did was conduct a full investigation into Russian meddling in their politics. In the UK our government just simply decided not to look. And the report that did try to scratch the surface was shelved and hidden until things had moved on.

 

[johnola]

Isn’t Biden on Irelands side and more pro EU unity? One thing the US did was conduct a full investigation into Russian meddling in their politics. In the UK our government just simply decided not to look. And the report that did try to scratch the surface was shelved and hidden until things had moved on.

what I mean is during brexit, their influence was 10000x more evident and clear than anything Russia did. They didn’t want us to leave, and let’s be honest, Obama trash talked us, and the USA has massive influence here, just not enough.

Kill the Russian influence talk it is garbage.

 

[SpurMeUp]

what I mean is during brexit, their influence was 10000x more evident and clear than anything Russia did. They didn’t want us to leave, and let’s be honest, Obama trash talked us, and the USA has massive influence here, just not enough.

Kill the Russian influence talk it is garbage.

yes Obama was open and honest that a trade deal between the UK and US wouldn’t be the walk in the park those campaigning to leave suggested. Indeed what he said has proved to be true. And those who spouted such rubbish saying we’d waltz through such trade agreements, we can now say conclusively, were either lying or naïve.

Russian interference can’t be quantified in terms of votes. But it is accepted. The US investigation found clear evidence and the powers that be know Russia had a targeted campaign with funds, hackers and bots looking to disrupt. The UK governments public stance is we don’t have any evidence for it - yes because if you look the other way you tend not to see anything. That was Until info was leaked to Corbyn and then suddenly this government suddenly did allude to Russian interference!

It is supremely hard to track offshore monies. But it’s more or less accepted Russia has funded local actors to seed disharmony. And Russia is only copying the US’ play book, who for for example spent $4billion funding anarchists and facist groups in Ukraine when it was run by a democratically elected Russian puppet (these monies are public record in the US). So Russia just took the Cold War playbook and brought it into the 21st century.

As for Brexit, paying millions to Cambridge Analytica to ensure the narrative was focused on imigration and not the economy and to use digital media…we don’t know if this tipped the balance but it might have. It wasn’t a super majority for leaving. Moreover, it is likely more cash that is off the books has soaked it’s way through. With local actors taking in rubbles in offshore accounts, that we don’t even know about. The likes of Robert Mercer who funded Cambridge Analyitica is incredibly shady.

Renaissance Technologies where he made his money is a fascinating hedge fund. It always makes massive amounts of money - year in year out. And the funds that excel within the group - they are secret. The public funds they run are less successful, they don’t always hit massive returns each year as the secret funds do. Mercer of course questions climate change, something Russia needs to stall with their reliance on oil and gas. Farrage also wierdly - uncomfortably- also questions climate change. Like he is caught by two opposing beliefs.

RT was setup by an ex-US government employee who was rumoured to have links to soviet Russia. He funded the left in the US from the same pot as Robert Mercer influencing the likes of Clinton etc.

We will never know the complete picture, but it is widely accepted that Russia has had amazing successes and caught the west off guard in these post-Cold War games.

 

[johnola]

yes Obama was open and honest that a trade deal between the UK and US wouldn’t be the walk in the park those campaigning to leave suggested. Indeed what he said has proved to be true. And those who spouted such rubbish saying we’d waltz through such trade agreements, we can now say conclusively, were either lying or naïve.

Russian interference can’t be quantified in terms of votes. But it is accepted. The US investigation found clear evidence and the powers that be know Russia had a targeted campaign with funds, hackers and bots looking to disrupt. The UK governments public stance is we don’t have any evidence for it - yes because if you look the other way you tend not to see anything. That was Until info was leaked to Corbyn and then suddenly this government suddenly did allude to Russian interference!

It is supremely hard to track offshore monies. But it’s more or less accepted Russia has funded local actors to seed disharmony. And Russia is only copying the US’ play book, who for for example spent $4billion funding anarchists and facist groups in Ukraine when it was run by a democratically elected Russian puppet (these monies are public record in the US). So Russia just took the Cold War playbook and brought it into the 21st century.

As for Brexit, paying millions to Cambridge Analytica to ensure the narrative was focused on imigration and not the economy and to use digital media…we don’t know if this tipped the balance but it might have. It wasn’t a super majority for leaving. Moreover, it is likely more cash that is off the books has soaked it’s way through. With local actors taking in rubbles in offshore accounts, that we don’t even know about. The likes of Robert Mercer who funded Cambridge Analyitica is incredibly shady.

Renaissance Technologies where he made his money is a fascinating hedge fund. It always makes massive amounts of money - year in year out. And the funds that excel within the group - they are secret. The public funds they run are less successful, they don’t always hit massive returns each year as the secret funds do. Mercer of course questions climate change, something Russia needs to stall with their reliance on oil and gas. Farrage also wierdly - uncomfortably- also questions climate change. Like he is caught by two opposing beliefs.

RT was setup by an ex-US government employee who was rumoured to have links to soviet Russia. He funded the left in the US from the same pot as Robert Mercer influencing the likes of Clinton etc.

We will never know the complete picture, but it is widely accepted that Russia has had amazing successes and caught the west off guard in these post-Cold War games.

The narrative was always around immigration as the EU refused to concede to David Cameron that we could even discuss introducing tighter controls.Thst is what triggered the referendum.

You can buy all the conspiracy guff you want but any influence on the day to day is mostly what is in front of your face.

It’s like astrology reading all these massive influences on our daily lives from distant celestial bodies whilst ignoring the impact of the sun and the moon.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The narrative was always around immigration as the EU refused to concede to David Cameron that we could even discuss introducing tighter controls.Thst is what triggered the referendum.

You can buy all the conspiracy guff you want but any influence on the day to day is mostly what is in front of your face.

It’s like astrology reading all these massive influences on our daily lives from distant celestial bodies whilst ignoring the impact of the sun and the moon.

You could say the leave vote took off because the narrative was around immigration - that was the success of the Leave campaign. And what Cambridge Analytica worked on. The failure of the remain campaign is they were not able to make it about the economy. However, the reality of the Eu is that its heart is a customs union - a trading union - so leaving was very much about impacts on the economy. Immigration was always a clever way to energise the vote, even though the issues around immigration are far more nuanced than leave made out. Some of the claims were just blantent lies/scaremongering - like Turkish immigration immagery.

You're evidently from the Boris school of look the other way, and pretend nothing happened! There was a leak to Corbyn re. the NHS. It was widely believed this was the work of russian hackers. Not a conspiracy theory. The leak happened. The emails where Aaron Banks was offered shares in a gold mines were made up and are just a conspiracy theory? The Times must have been dupped too? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ld-the-mining-deal-too-good-to-miss-nnsh7wwjl

The Russian ambassador to the UK offered to help the millionaire Brexit donor Arron Banks broker a big gold deal in Siberia.

Alexander Yakovenko, who has served as the Kremlin’s representative in Britain since 2011, asked Banks to come in on a complex gold deal involving several Russian businessmen and a former head of the UK armed forces.

Emails seen by The Sunday Times reveal that Banks was “very interested” in Yakovenko’s proposal in November 2015 and was “keen to have a look”.

The deal involved Peter “Goldfinger” Hambro, 73, the Eton-educated former chairman of a Russian mining company, and Lord Guthrie, head of the armed forces under Tony Blair. Yesterday Banks admitted the deal was for “six Russian goldmines in Siberia” owned by Sima


Are you saying the 'Great Game' where large nations work nefariously behind the scenes to manipulate, does not happen?

 

[johnola]

You could say the leave vote took off because the narrative was around immigration - that was the success of the Leave campaign. And what Cambridge Analytica worked on. The failure of the remain campaign is they were not able to make it about the economy. However, the reality of the Eu is that its heart is a customs union - a trading union - so leaving was very much about impacts on the economy. Immigration was always a clever way to energise the vote, even though the issues around immigration are far more nuanced than leave made out. Some of the claims were just blantent lies/scaremongering - like Turkish immigration immagery.

You're evidently from the Boris school of look the other way, and pretend nothing happened! There was a leak to Corbyn re. the NHS. It was widely believed this was the work of russian hackers. Not a conspiracy theory. The leak happened. The emails where Aaron Banks was offered shares in a gold mines were made up and are just a conspiracy theory? The Times must have been dupped too? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ld-the-mining-deal-too-good-to-miss-nnsh7wwjl

The Russian ambassador to the UK offered to help the millionaire Brexit donor Arron Banks broker a big gold deal in Siberia.

Alexander Yakovenko, who has served as the Kremlin’s representative in Britain since 2011, asked Banks to come in on a complex gold deal involving several Russian businessmen and a former head of the UK armed forces.

Emails seen by The Sunday Times reveal that Banks was “very interested” in Yakovenko’s proposal in November 2015 and was “keen to have a look”.

The deal involved Peter “Goldfinger” Hambro, 73, the Eton-educated former chairman of a Russian mining company, and Lord Guthrie, head of the armed forces under Tony Blair. Yesterday Banks admitted the deal was for “six Russian goldmines in Siberia” owned by Sima


Are you saying the 'Great Game' where large nations work nefariously behind the scenes to manipulate, does not happen?

I just happen not to agree with you. And it seems that is on a wider basis that I originally thought.

I live in a free country where I make my own decisions and own my mistakes. I don’t blame third party actors, random Jewish persons*, nudge units or bloody Microsoft when something goes wrong in my life.

*Who is Aaron Banks anyway?

Yea different parties have different interests, and options for trade invariably present strategic benefits which would be foolish to ignore. For example when we binned off Huawei.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I just happen not to agree with you. And it seems that is on a wider basis that I originally thought.

I live in a free country where I make my own decisions and own my mistakes. I don’t blame third party actors, random Jewish persons*, nudge units or bloody Microsoft when something goes wrong in my life.

*Who is Aaron Banks anyway?

Yea different parties have different interests, and options for trade invariably present strategic benefits which would be foolish to ignore. For example when we binned off Huawei.

It seems you are more the conspiracy theorist after all! Random Jewish people??? Blaming Microsoft??? Things going wrong in your life!???

Let's recap - I mentioned some things relating to Russia, and Arron Banks. You then came back saying it was all conspiracy nonsense. I flagged up examples of more factual evidence linking Banks to the Russian state, asking you if these were made-up "conspiracy guff" too. You didn't wish to comment on this and went off on one about goodness knows what. Banks met with the Russian ambassador who offered him a 'sweetheart' deal for some gold mines. Bank also met with Alexander Udod, who was subsequently ejected from the UK by M15 as a russian spy. Banks initially denied all of this, but later changed his story admitting the meetings. But its all guff? It never happened. The Russian state didn't offer him sensational deals on Russian gold mines?

 

[scaramanga]

yes Obama was open and honest that a trade deal between the UK and US wouldn’t be the walk in the park those campaigning to leave suggested. Indeed what he said has proved to be true. And those who spouted such rubbish saying we’d waltz through such trade agreements, we can now say conclusively, were either lying or naïve.

Russian interference can’t be quantified in terms of votes. But it is accepted. The US investigation found clear evidence and the powers that be know Russia had a targeted campaign with funds, hackers and bots looking to disrupt. The UK governments public stance is we don’t have any evidence for it - yes because if you look the other way you tend not to see anything. That was Until info was leaked to Corbyn and then suddenly this government suddenly did allude to Russian interference!

It is supremely hard to track offshore monies. But it’s more or less accepted Russia has funded local actors to seed disharmony. And Russia is only copying the US’ play book, who for for example spent $4billion funding anarchists and facist groups in Ukraine when it was run by a democratically elected Russian puppet (these monies are public record in the US). So Russia just took the Cold War playbook and brought it into the 21st century.

As for Brexit, paying millions to Cambridge Analytica to ensure the narrative was focused on imigration and not the economy and to use digital media…we don’t know if this tipped the balance but it might have. It wasn’t a super majority for leaving. Moreover, it is likely more cash that is off the books has soaked it’s way through. With local actors taking in rubbles in offshore accounts, that we don’t even know about. The likes of Robert Mercer who funded Cambridge Analyitica is incredibly shady.

Renaissance Technologies where he made his money is a fascinating hedge fund. It always makes massive amounts of money - year in year out. And the funds that excel within the group - they are secret. The public funds they run are less successful, they don’t always hit massive returns each year as the secret funds do. Mercer of course questions climate change, something Russia needs to stall with their reliance on oil and gas. Farrage also wierdly - uncomfortably- also questions climate change. Like he is caught by two opposing beliefs.

RT was setup by an ex-US government employee who was rumoured to have links to soviet Russia. He funded the left in the US from the same pot as Robert Mercer influencing the likes of Clinton etc.

We will never know the complete picture, but it is widely accepted that Russia has had amazing successes and caught the west off guard in these post-Cold War games.

You're cherry picking what suits your narrative.

Rich people have money everywhere. I bet there's not a country of significant size anywhere in the world that Banks doesn't have large sums of money invested.

 

[Yiddo]

So according to Newspapers Russia are going to invade Ireland and cut their Internet cables. . . . Ive heard it all now.

 

[Rorschach]

So according to Newspapers Russia are going to invade Ireland and cut their Internet cables. . . . Ive heard it all now.

Bastards. I won't be able to post this amaz

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

The are some plus sides to Put in then.

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1493326876223365126

 

[P.D.]

Everyone knows Banks funded Brexit via offshore funds which are almost certainly from Russia. The circumstantial evidence is clear, even if webs of offshore companies makes it impossible to trace in any above board way. Speak to any intelligence people off record and it’s an accepted known.

Never mind the emails offering Banks stakes in Russian gold mines for free, meetings with Russian officials, his Russian wife who’s got links to Russian secret services…forget all that. Bank has never made enough money to cover his total donations to the leave campaign! The companies he’s sold do not amount to the millions he donated A relative pauper by political donation standards, he remains the largest political donor ever in the UK. Even billionaires don’t squander the sums he did.

The west doesn’t want to add Ukraine to NATO because they don’t really wish to be drawn into Russias backyard. And it might to the opposit of ending things. It could enflame the situation. While the right wing in the US love to play the old anti-commie games funding separatist anti-russian factions in Ukraine, the EU and most in America realise it’s best not to poke the bear. Adding Ukraine to nato would complicate matters and potentially cause further division. The reality is the east of Ukraine is already Russian. The people were always largely ethnically russian. And now they are supported by the russian state accessing better paid russian pensions etc. If you tear all of Ukraine away from Russia you risk enflaming a civil war and division based on ethnic lines.

You do realise circumstantial evidence is just that, you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. It does look suspicious but a few tenuous links doesn't make someone guilty. Similarly have you had off the record convo's with high ranking intelligence people then? You've written that almost as though it's a fact.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You do realise circumstantial evidence is just that, you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. It does look suspicious but a few tenuous links doesn't make someone guilty. Similarly have you had off the record convo's with high ranking intelligence people then? You've written that almost as though it's a fact.

You’re asking if circumstantial means circumstantial…lol

How ‘tenuous’ and ‘few’ are the links? When even Banks admits the Russian ambassador was offering him Russian gold mines for nominal amounts. Why?

And why would Banks be meeting with a known Russian spy?

Then the fact Banks has outspent every other political donor the UK has seen. When he’s sold insurance companies for single digit millions (or at most 10s of millions). Vastly richer billionaire political donors have never spent the huge sums Banks did. It is openly accepted in intelligence circles. Offshore webs of companies makes it impossible to trace the funds, and it will likely never be proven.

 

[Rorschach]

I see there's a wave of cyberattacks ongoing at the moment in Ukraine. ATMs and military websites are down apparently. Hopefully, it is not a precursor to something else.

edit: ddos attacks at the moment. If they go after the infrastructure then this often signals an escalation.

 

[P.D.]

You’re asking if circumstantial means circumstantial…lol

How ‘tenuous’ and ‘few’ are the links? When even Banks admits the Russian ambassador was offering him Russian gold mines for nominal amounts. Why?

And why would Banks be meeting with a known Russian spy?

Then the fact Banks has outspent every other political donor the UK has seen. When he’s sold insurance companies for single digit millions (or at most 10s of millions). Vastly richer billionaire political donors have never spent the huge sums Banks did. It is openly accepted in intelligence circles. Offshore webs of companies makes it impossible to trace the funds, and it will likely never be proven.

Agreed it sounds dodgy but in reality it's all circumstantial evidence, there's no proof he's actually done anything. At worst he's a puppet for someone else, no power of his own. And what do you mean openly accepted in intelligence circles, are you dining at MI5? If there was clear evidence he'd either be charged or they'd keep him under observation in the hope it leads to something bigger.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Agreed it sounds dodgy but in reality it's all circumstantial evidence, there's no proof he's actually done anything. At worst he's a puppet for someone else, no power of his own. And what do you mean openly accepted in intelligence circles, are you dining at MI5? If there was clear evidence he'd either be charged or they'd keep him under observation in the hope it leads to something bigger.

MI5 are beholden to whom? And he or they are in power because of what?

There is no appetite to look, let alone convict anyone. Even the simple Russian Interference Report, was shelved for 9 months by this government. They definitely do not want light shining on this topic. For good reason. What did the report conclude? That when this government had the chance to act and investigate over Russian interference, it turned a blind eye.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Seems like the West's tactic with Putin now is to shout about and publicise intelligence. A definite sea change. Rather than secretly know what is going on, the West is now using the media to push back against Russia. So Russia can't so easily fabricate an excuse to invade Ukraine.

Looks like ‘invade Ukraine’ is Russia trying to formally annex the eastern part of Ukraine that is held by pro-Russian forces. Will it cause a full on war?

 

[Jordinho]

Russia formally recognising Luhansk and Donetsk as independent. Next step will be to offer them protection and move forces in.

 

[Rorschach]

Russia formally recognising Luhansk and Donetsk as independent. Next step will be to offer them protection and move forces in.

Next domino falling...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495871072889184260

"Putin instructed the Ministry of Defense to ensure the maintenance of peace in the "DPR and LPR" by the Russian armed forces All official invasion!"