And you know this how? You have interviewed how many players at the highest level about the matter?
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And you know this how? You have interviewed how many players at the highest level about the matter?
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
The League Cup win for me was memorable because WHO we beat in the Final. Winning the League Cup itself is nice but not exactly thrilling. Funny how hardly anyone mentions winning the League Cup under Graham. It meant very little back then too, but certainly meant more back then than now.
As for the FA Cup? It ceased becoming important in the 00's, especially after Utd ditched it and the CL went to four spots. The kudos has gone. It's not like us winning it in 91 when it actually meant something.
Also the squad game has killed these Cups. In years gone by teams didn't rotate as much so winning the Cups was a lot tougher. Now even lower end Prem clubs play weakened teams in the competition. It simply isn't exciting anymore. It's like when we stuffed Arsenal in the League Cup that time. It was funny and always nice to get one over them, but it was hardly something worth trumpeting about a couple of weeks later because it wasn't much of an achievement.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Interviewed? No. Spoken to and socialised with? Yes. The FA Cup WAS special, but other nations domestic cups were often an afterthought. Foreign players especially don't care. I had a long conversation recently with two current Spurs players, both foreign, and one actually hated the Cups because he didn't like going to "crappy grounds with crappy pitches" whilst the other more senior player did care more about the Cups but admitted he'd rather play regular Champion's League football playing against top opposition in iconic grounds than play the occasional game at Wembley. He also said that since the old Wembley was demolished the prestige of playing at Wembley had gone. I did ask them both about how English players felt and he said the problem now is that playing at Wembley used to be a massive dream and day out for most English players. It was the highlight of their career. Since Wembley started hosting semi finals, play off finals and since so many English players now win caps that prestige has also been cheapened.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Players who are true winners want to win everything they enter. I'm sure if you ask the likes of Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville, they will say nothing different.
Nobody mentions Graham's win the way hardly anyone mentions the double. It is ancient history. But I was thrilled by every cup we won and I want that same thrill back.
Old joke but when asked what was his worst blow job like any guy will say "Fantastic!!!"
Having so much football televised also means you don't care about watching two teams you don't care for play out some dull affair. I can't even remember who wins these things any more. In the 90's I'd look forward to any form of cup match, domestic or European, regardless of who was playing. The novelty has worn off and I only care for what Spurs do.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
You will then also be aware that most players are businessmen who are looking to earn as much money as possible, and as such, winning trophies will bring bonuses, etc. If the management's demands are that all competitions be taken seriously, then professionals will respond as such. Of course regular Champions League football is desired; more money in the pocket, more exposure, more potential chance for an agent to find a big move for their client, etc, etc. But winning is a habit that good professionals either have or want, and as such, they will (if managed by an ambitious man) take all competitions as potential winners.
So you have spoken to a few and you give an opinion like you have spoken to many. Playing at Wembley in play offs is an entirely separate issue to playing in Cup Finals but I bet most pros love playing there. Just an opinion.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I've spoken to a fair few and been told about dozens more. One of my best mates is a recently ex-Spurs player and he is English. I'll take his opinion and views over yours thanks very much!
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I don't discuss money with people I hardly know, most of them wouldnt discuss such things either and I'd imagine every player has different contractual agreements. What I do know for a fact is that when he was a Spurs player Champion's League qualification bonus was substantially higher than a Cup bonus and finishing higher in the league (dependant on a league appearances multiplier) also gave a significantly higher bonus than the Cups. For the higher paid team members the cup bonuses aren't worth much comparatively either which is a reason you won't hear many first teamers complain about non-cup selections (until the final anyway!).
So my opinions don't matter to you? Fair enough.
I think you should try to win the argument rather than denigrate the person you are speaking to.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
No, he didn't say your opinions don't matter. He said the opinion of a professional footballer is more important when discussing what professional footballers think.
It's complete madness! I know!
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I never said that. I said that I will take my mates opinion over yours, specifically on this subject.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Different era and all British growing up in an era where the FA Cup meant something. People like Ronaldo never cared that much, and I'd describe him as a winner.
I couldn't think of anything better, I would have so much fun seeing us win the league and being Champions of Europe.
What I don't find fun is winning one League Cup in 12 years under ENIC, and being overtaken by teams like City and Chelsea who used to be inferior to us.
Did you really find it fun seeing us lose 5-2 to Chelsea in the FA Cup semi-final, or seeing them steal our CL place by beating Bayern? I missed the funny side of it I can tell you that.
Nt a lot of point of them coming to us then, cos we ain't winning the CL or title under ENIC.
I loved it when we won the League Cup in 2008, but I also loved it when we won it in 1999 under Graham. I think it meant plenty, tickets sold out no danger, I had to buy £90 seats as a member to get to see the game. The demand for the game was huge, plenty of Spurs ended up in the neutral/away end.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Yes, very true (they don't even discuss it amidst themselves unless an agent is stirring the pot with whispers), but my point is that you don't get to the CL unless you develop a winning mentality.
Any good manager wants to win what the club goes in for. To a club like ours, any trophy right now could be absolutely massive for our future in terms of convincing the players they have the mentality to be winners. Obviously a small squad makes it harder for those clubs, but a big club? No excuse. Ask David Moyes or Arsene Wenger if they want to win the FA Cup. Because of they want it, then they will convince their sides to go for it.
As to Wembley, I think it's a generational thing. I would absolutely agree that since the classic old stadium went it has lost a bit of luster, and whilst I think al players enjoy a big match there, yes, it has become 'less' than what it was in the eyes of just about everyone I think. This is where a good manager will drum into their squad how important it is to win that 'first' trophy. Mourinho was adamant about it, and I believe he was right.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Fair point but only if you consider the fact that he won the trophy in his first year at Utd (I suspect the fact it was in Cardiff took the sheen off it).
But I think what SAF has done at Utd is absolutely make these things as important as he can in the modern context. I wonder how much it hurt him to have to sacrifice the FA Cup that year he did (forgot which one!) in some sort of weird ambassadorial move for the FA World Cup bid or whatever that shambles was?
I agree the cup has lost some of it's luster as everyone wants CL money and places (the notion of SIX places is just pathetic IMHO, why not end leagues as we know it now instead of slowly killing them with brick like that!) but I still maintain a good manager will emboss the importance of winning trophies on his side however big or small those trophies are in relation to the CL or your domestic title.
The interesting by-product of this conversation is that for me, it highlights what a lack of true winning mentality our club has had for far too long, complete with players who either don't know how, or aren't coached, to give that extra 10-15% to hold on for a win or fin a way to win matches. Put it this way. If AVB is doing his job, then he should have every one who plays against Leeds or Brum ready to leave it all on the pitch for that win the same as if we were playing Man U at home!