Politics, politics, politics

[Baleforce]

50 days and our leaders still haven't finished their first dance, Corbyn now arguing for the impossible from the EU whilst May wants to remove a backstop to appease members of her party who insist it won't be needed anyway, not a trustworthy individual amongst them

we do not have a functioning government

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

thats been the case for over two years, no realistic vision has been put forward yet, just promises of flowers and sausages

So? Post Brexit (assuming we dont completely neuter ourselves) we will have a situation, a base if you will, from which we will need to move.

THAT election will be where our politicians are forced to actually have a point.

THAT is the bit Im really looking forward to.

It would have been wonderful to have had that already, I dont disagree, but if anything has been proven its that our current political pool is so weak willed and lilly livered it simply isnt up to task.

Brexit will inevitably sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Baleforce]

And after 3 years you have to ask, why is there no vision?

And the answer is simple, Brexit offers nothing positive. It provides less to the UK not more so it is extremely hard to set out a realistic vision for positive change, when all Brexit really does is give the same old but slightly degraded. Degraded trade, wealth, UK prominence, peoples rights etc and on the flip side we might be able to control some dull trade laws and get immigrants from further away [emoji85]

Why political leaders are having difficulty being honest about this is the scandal imo.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

indeed, it's being driven to entrench the class divisions, not to break them down

we are racing towards no deal, look who benefits

 

[Baleforce]

So? Post Brexit (assuming we dont completely neuter ourselves) we will have a situation, a base if you will, from which we will need to move.

THAT election will be where our politicians are forced to actually have a point.

THAT is the bit Im really looking forward to.

It would have been wonderful to have had that already, I dont disagree, but if anything has been proven its that our current political pool is so weak willed and lilly livered it simply isnt up to task.

Brexit will inevitably sort the wheat from the chaff.

we could have done that inside the EU with a far stronger base

 

[SpurMeUp]

So? Post Brexit (assuming we dont completely neuter ourselves) we will have a situation, a base if you will, from which we will need to move.

THAT election will be where our politicians are forced to actually have a point.

THAT is the bit Im really looking forward to.

It would have been wonderful to have had that already, I dont disagree, but if anything has been proven its that our current political pool is so weak willed and lilly livered it simply isnt up to task.

Brexit will inevitably sort the wheat from the chaff.

What is stopping them having a point now???

The ERG - research group - don’t have a published vision. UKIP who’s sole purpose is to leave the EU don’t have a vision.

We are kidding ourselves if we are waiting for the vision or “point” of Brexit after 3 years. Can’t you see it is not happening?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

50 days and our leaders still haven't finished their first dance, Corbyn now arguing for the impossible from the EU whilst May wants to remove a backstop to appease members of her party who insist it won't be needed anyway, not a trustworthy individual amongst them

we do not have a functioning government

Basically what Ive been saying forever!

This is quite literally hysterical:

The Labour leader's five demands include a "permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union" aligned with the EU's customs rules but with an agreement "that includes a UK say on future EU trade deals".

Mr Corbyn also wants close alignment with the EU single market and "dynamic alignment on rights and protections" for workers so that UK standards do not fall behind those of the EU.

He also proposes participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, and agreements on security and keeping access to the European Arrest Warrant.

Obviously impossible. And, obviously, also can be described as "remain". FFS.

Corbyn, who doesnt even want to remain, is now transparently trying to con the public. "Look at me, Im being reasonable, and if they dont let me help its all on them" [while asking for unicorns bricking rainbows, knowing full well it will go nowhere].

 

[StephenH]

our current political pool is so weak willed and lilly livered it simply isnt up to task.

Where we do agree.

 

[StephenH]

Corbyn, who doesnt

As they say, sometimes less is more.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

we could have done that inside the EU with a far stronger base

Or, arguably, not. Depends what that desired direction is - the EU is quite restrictive if you have more radical ideas.

 

[Baleforce]

What is stopping them having a point now???

The ERG - research group - don’t have a published vision. UKIP who’s sole purpose is to leave the EU don’t have a vision.

We are kidding ourselves if we are waiting for the vision or “point” of Brexit after 3 years. Can’t you see it is not happening?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

both those groups have a strong vision, but they don't dare publish them

 

[Baleforce]

Or, arguably, not. Depends what that desired direction is - the EU is quite restrictive if you have more radical ideas.

only if the radical ideas work against environmental protection and human rights

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

only if the radical ideas work against environmental protection and human rights

Or the EUs budgetary ideas. Or tax ideas. Or ever closer union ideas...

I think its naive to say everything is possible within the EU, and so we would therefore have had a far stronger base from which to move.

 

[Baleforce]

Or the EUs budgetary ideas. Or tax ideas. Or ever closer union ideas...

I think its naive to say everything is possible within the EU, and so we would therefore have had a far stronger base from which to move.

inside the EU we have a voice in driving those things, there are no downsides to closer union

 

[r-u-s-x]

Basically what Ive been saying forever!

This is quite literally hysterical:

The Labour leader's five demands include a "permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union" aligned with the EU's customs rules but with an agreement "that includes a UK say on future EU trade deals".

Mr Corbyn also wants close alignment with the EU single market and "dynamic alignment on rights and protections" for workers so that UK standards do not fall behind those of the EU.

He also proposes participation in EU agencies and funding programmes, and agreements on security and keeping access to the European Arrest Warrant.

Obviously impossible. And, obviously, also can be described as "remain". FFS.

Corbyn, who doesnt even want to remain, is now transparently trying to con the public. "Look at me, Im being reasonable, and if they dont let me help its all on them" [while asking for unicorns bricking rainbows, knowing full well it will go nowhere].

Its basically Norway +, why is it impossible? Farage campaigned for it during the referendum (at least part of the time) so it is one of the flavours of brexit so hard to say it goes against the result. it removes a lot of the red lines that led to the current May deal and is mostly in line with the options the EU found agreeable.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

inside the EU we have a voice in driving those things, there are no downsides to closer union

In your opinion. Clearly more than half that voted disagree(d) with it.

Its basically Norway +, why is it impossible? Farage campaigned for it during the referendum (at least part of the time) so it is one of the flavours of brexit so hard to say it goes against the result. it removes a lot of the red lines that led to the current May deal and is mostly in line with the options the EU found agreeable.

Well, not impossible - but bloody stupid. The whole customs union thing was pulled apart the other week, utterly pointless to tie us into EU policy that would stop us making independent deals etc...

If thats the case then Remain is clearly a much better option.

 

[SpurMeUp]

both those groups have a strong vision, but they don't dare publish them

I understand your point - that their ideas are unpublishable. But I don’t even think that is it. Both are based on things they don’t like.

As movements they are not about positive change. They are movements for leaving, and anti EU. About what they don’t like. Beyond that there is little vision imo.

Sure UKIP probably want a whiter UK and Rees-Moggs fathers book sets out a blade runner like future vision. But that’s not real vision with any substance. Which is why there was never a forward thinking manifesto.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[r-u-s-x]

In your opinion. Clearly more than half that voted disagree(d) with it.



Well, not impossible - but bloody stupid. The whole customs union thing was pulled apart the other week, utterly pointless to tie us into EU policy that would stop us making independent deals etc...

If thats the case then Remain is clearly a much better option.

Yes remain is the best option, given that's off the table a customs union is least worse option. Its bloody stupid to remove remain but not bloody stupid to have Norway + especially as this is probably the only deal that will be passed without another referendum.

 

[Gutter Boy]

inside the EU we have a voice in driving those things, there are no downsides to closer union

The death of democracy?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yes remain is the best option, given that's off the table a customs union is least worse option. Its bloody stupid to remove remain but not bloody stupid to have Norway + especially as this is probably the only deal that will be passed without another referendum.

Norway+ is utterly pointless in context of "leaving the EU".

Its just faux remain. Although of course leaves us much worse of than simply remaining.

 

[Baleforce]

The death of democracy?

yawn