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Politics, politics, politics

Gutter Boy said:
Just that Tusk looks like the Green Goblin from Spider-Man

The debate on the EU has been going on for 40 years. Labour campaigned to leave in the 1983 general election. It split the Tory party through the mids 90s. I wouldn't have though many people could say they didn't know the arguments. All that happened this decade was the Europhobes in society increase from somewhere in the 40%s to over 50%. It's been a decades-long process, like the coming nationalist majority in NI.
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...and what is/was the Brexit plan???

To me brexit is comedy gold. None of it makes the remotest sense. The brexit contractions are endless. Lets list some of the obvious ones:

1. We are going to forge the UK as a great trading nation by leaving the worlds largest free market. Ahahahah.
2. ...

I won't bang on but I can think of a few more which make me smirk. If it weren't so serious...it would be farcical.
 
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No one really know and this why we MUST have a more formally handle Brexit or for that matter ANY national votes.
What have is a very dubious mishmash with Brexit 2 years ago.
We should have just left. Not my wish I might add.

But what we have is a fudge!
 
SpurMeUp said:
...and what is/was the Brexit plan???

To me brexit is comedy gold. None of it makes the remotest sense. The brexit contractions are endless. Lets list some of the obvious ones:

1. We are going to forge the UK as a great trading nation by leaving the worlds largest free market. Ahahahah.
2. ...

I won't bang on but I can think of a few more which make me smirk. If it weren't so serious...it would be farcical.
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Leave has never been about 'what'. It has always been about 'how'. That is how it has managed to bring positions from Corbyn to Reece-Mogg, and everything between, together.

Essentially it's about who has power. Is it a UK democracy, or is an EU oligarchy. Do we vote to decide our future fate, or is it decided by the big business lobby groups that run Brussels. What leave is is endless possibilities.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Leave has never been about 'what'. It has always been about 'how'. That is how it has managed to bring positions from Corbyn to Reece-Mogg, and everything between, together.

Essentially it's about who has power. Is it a UK democracy, or is an EU oligarchy. Do we vote to decide our future fate, or is it decided by the big business lobby groups that run Brussels. What leave is is endless possibilities.
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Thank you for illustrating the mumbo jumbo and lack of plan so well.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
StephenH said:
This should have been organised far better.
No one is going to get what they really wanted.
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It is hard to organise a mass movement, when all the establishment is stacked up in opposition. I agree leave lacked a dynamic charismatic leader with a vision. But equally it could have fallen with that person's flaws, whereas if it stays as an un-led movement, its momentum is organic.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It is hard to organise a mass movement, when all the establishment is stacked up in opposition. I agree leave lacked a dynamic charismatic leader with a vision. But equally it could have fallen with that person's flaws, whereas if it stays as an un-led movement, its momentum is organic.
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Could Leave be a Guinness World Record? For the biggest record of miselling? 17m sold. Despite no plan and no benefits.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Could Leave be a Guinness World Record? For the biggest record of miselling? 17m sold. Despite no plan and no benefits.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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No one was sold anything. The people were just sick of being trampled on by a corporate elite, and decided to try something different. Revolts rarely begin with clarity, other than getting rid of the oppressors.
 
Gutter Boy said:
No one was sold anything. The people were just sick of being trampled on by a corporate elite, and decided to try something different. Revolts rarely begin with clarity, other than getting rid of the oppressors.
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Difference is revolutions promise something. What does Brexit promise in real terms, not rhetoric. Real world examples of how daily life improves if possible, not abstract philosophy gonads.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
galeforce said:
I'll ask again, what have you seen from the Brexiteer members of Tory party to suggest that they want to move to post-capitalism?
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Im not sure there is anything to suggest such, but I do think GB is right in that its the following election that really defines these things.

With a brick storm swirling, each party will have to put forward an actual vision of a way forward, there is no maintaining the status quo.

Which should be really interesting.

I posted a link a couple of days ago saying (speculatively of course) that there could be a group splitting from the Labour party to form a more centrist party, hoping to attract similarly minded Tories as well.

Imagine a 3 horse race, with a proper left, centre, right split being represented
 
Gutter Boy said:
They are temporary allies. Their domestic manifesto won't win a general election. An Atlee-esque one will
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any substance to that, how do they get from here to there, what have the ERG said to suggest that this is anything other than an attempt to cement the current tiers?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not sure there is anything to suggest such, but I do think GB is right in that its the following election that really defines these things.

With a brick storm swirling, each party will have to put forward an actual vision of a way forward, there is no maintaining the status quo.

Which should be really interesting.

I posted a link a couple of days ago saying (speculatively of course) that there could be a group splitting from the Labour party to form a more centrist party, hoping to attract similarly minded Tories as well.

Imagine a 3 horse race, with a proper left, centre, right split being represented
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thats been the case for over two years, no realistic vision has been put forward yet, just promises of flowers and sausages
 
Gutter Boy said:
Leave has never been about 'what'. It has always been about 'how'. That is how it has managed to bring positions from Corbyn to Reece-Mogg, and everything between, together.

Essentially it's about who has power. Is it a UK democracy, or is an EU oligarchy. Do we vote to decide our future fate, or is it decided by the big business lobby groups that run Brussels. What leave is endless possibilities.
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All you do here is describe what led up to the 'Titanic hitting the iceberg'.

The Torie party treated this country as its own fiefdom, you don't play fast and loose with families incomes, "endless possibilities" is crap its not a 6th form debating society.

Brexteers should be brought to book for peddling 'snake oil'.
Jeremy should retire he is the epitome of a 'chocolate teapot'.
 
galeforce said:
thats been the case for over two years, no realistic vision has been put forward yet, just promises of flowers and sausages
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And after 3 years you have to ask, why is there no vision?

And the answer is simple, Brexit offers nothing positive. It provides less to the UK not more so it is extremely hard to set out a realistic vision for positive change, when all Brexit really does is give the same old but slightly degraded. Degraded trade, wealth, UK prominence, peoples rights etc and on the flip side we might be able to control some dull trade laws and get immigrants from further away [emoji85]

Why political leaders are having difficulty being honest about this is the scandal imo.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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