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Politics, politics, politics

ricky2tricky4city said:
Where are we with Brexit?

Not been watching the news.....so fIll me in...a paragraph will do.
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May is trying to get the required votes still. By pretending she will renegotiate the back stop (to get reese-mog and erg on side). At same time she is offering extra money for labour constituencies if their MP votes for her deal.

Article 51 will be extended. But from there who knows?

The greatest hope for Brexiteers is they get Brexit by default. That fatigue and desperation force the UK into taking what will be a suboptimal deal. If not, then people will weigh up what we gain and lose, make a simple judgment, and on that informed basis revoke article 50.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
milo said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1091713140495212544
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Will it make any difference? To those who want to leave the EU they are so entrenched, it's all project fear, won't affect me mate. Forced by the likes of me, the media etc into a corner where they don't care what the collatoral damage will be, rational thinking has long gone out the window. Had lunch with one today. Lovely chap. Like everyone he thinks he'll be unaffected by a hard Brexit. And then he said he wanted to leave the EU so we can take control of non-EU immigration laws <face palm> As though we can't now.
 
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One irony of Brexit, if it happens, is it would likely bring about a less white UK. Which I'd find hilarious as the mild bigotory of Leave turns the tables on itself. Stats show that people who don't particularly like immigrants prefer white ones. It's a delicate subject, but that is what opinion polls show.

Given the nature of the immigration imbued leave vote I am slightly suprised people are not talking about this.
 
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Err maybe because the majority of the 17million odd people that voted leave aren’t racists or bigots and for them immigration was about taking control not becoming and isolated state.

But keep peddling the racist leave line, if you say it enough then people might begin to believe it

I’m never wrong, but sometimes I may be less right
 
NoLimits01 said:
Err maybe because the majority of the 17million odd people that voted leave aren’t racists or bigots


I’m never wrong, but sometimes I may be less right
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For the record I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to control immigration, and I wouldn't consider a desire to, to be racist or bigoted. This is something 'my side' still fail to understand imo.

But in the referendum campaign there were bill boards of lots of dark faced immigrants lining up - used as a way to get us to vote leave. While the majority of leave voters are not racists or bigots it was a theme of the campaign and there are a minority who maybe. In short we agree.

The irony is that these voters who don't like imigrants prefer European ones. Can you see the irony there?
 
milo said:
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So ontop of the 10-20% increase in the cost of food that we've paid since the Brexit vote, there will likely be more price rises if we have a hard brexit (which May probably won't allow, A50 will be extended). My previous point is backed up in this video. If you don't have Poles, Romanians etc chopping leaks in the freezing cold fields who will be doing this low skilled graft?

Same applies to caring for our aging population, or the worst jobs on building sites. One thing is for sure it won't be the English doing these jobs. We need some immigration. The latest immigration figures showed something like 200,000 people moving to the UK from rest of world, most from Asia. With only 70k from the EU. Why are politicians not talking about this?

It may be incendiary but I would like to know if Leave voters voted for a less white UK. The opinion polls I saw, and the rhetoric from the leave campaign suggests to me that its another Brexit bomb shell: what was promised, controlling UK immigration, is almost the opposite of the brexit reality.
 
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Due to rather strong deep held political beliefs I do not come in this thread often as the is not much point going over the same arguments.

Just one thing, a lot of people are saying how long and difficult it will be for us to negotiate trade deals after Brexit.

How difficult and long do you think it will be?


How long for example do you think it will take for us to set up a trade deal with oh I dont know lets say Chile for example;):D

Anyway, I bow out of this thread and leave you lovely lot to it.

PS. Do any of you happen to know any flight attendants?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Due to rather strong deep held political beliefs I do not come in this thread often as the is not much point going over the same arguments.

Just one thing, a lot of people are saying how long and difficult it will be for us to negotiate trade deals after Brexit.

How difficult and long do you think it will be?


How long for example do you think it will take for us to set up a trade deal with oh I dont know lets say Chile for example;):D

Anyway, I bow out of this thread and leave you lovely lot to it.

PS. Do any of you happen to know any flight attendants?
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The EU Canada deal took 7 years to negotiate.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Due to rather strong deep held political beliefs I do not come in this thread often as the is not much point going over the same arguments.

Just one thing, a lot of people are saying how long and difficult it will be for us to negotiate trade deals after Brexit.

How difficult and long do you think it will be?


How long for example do you think it will take for us to set up a trade deal with oh I dont know lets say Chile for example;):D

Anyway, I bow out of this thread and leave you lovely lot to it.

PS. Do any of you happen to know any flight attendants?
Click to expand...

We don't need to guess at this, as we can look at history and how easy or difficult it is to negotiate international trade deals. What history tells us is its incredibly complex and takes a long time. They always take years to sign off. Why? Becuase each side has to protect its own industries.

Two other points:

1. It will be simplier to agree a trade deal with the EU now, if its part of an agreed exit, rather than falling out of the EU into WTO terms and then trying to negotiate a trade deal later. And remember most of our trade is with the nations in the EU, not Chile. All countries trade most with their neighbours. If we don't get a trade deal with the EU, swathes of British industry will be decimated. Don't believe me? Here's an example: half of UK lamb exports go to France. WTO tariffs wack 40% more onto the price of lamb. France wouldn't buy its lamb from us anymore, and the UK lamb industry would be crippled. The UK would lose jobs, and tax revenue that pays for hospitals etc and our nation would be less wealthy. Similar applies to car manufacturing and other industries. That's why people who understand it don't want a no deal exit from the EU.

2. The EU has 750 trade treaties with rest of the world nations to help us trade. 750! These treaties allow greater free trade than WTO terms. If/when we leave the EU we lose these 750 preferential trade treaties - with the likes of Canada, Japan etc. As we know, it takes years to negotiate these free trade agreements, and we'll be coming to the table with 50m consumers rather than the 550m that the EU has had as its bargining power. We'll also need many many more civil servants to do this trade work that the EU has been doing (millions more spent per year). Though to be fair and equal, on the up side we won't have to worry about the requirements of 27 other nations industries, and maybe the UK can be more agile in making free trade agreements. But remember when Japan or Canada look at us they see 50m consumers, not the attraction of 550m consumers the EU brought to the table.

I understand how oppositional this brexit shyte has become. I appreciate how biased Remainers are, and the media. But we have to put the "deep held beliefs" to one side, and just weigh things up. What does brexit deliver to the UK? What does it cost the UK?
 
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So far the only brexit benifits I've heard from posters is Scara saying it will allow him to pay people less than the current minium wage, and also possibly allow him to import materials cheaper (he was unable/unwilling to substantiate it tho). The other thing has been posters saying that brexit will give them greater sovrignity. It is unclear if Scara would see no minium wage from brexit (he won't if Corbyn gets in) and any kind of Customs Union deal with the EU would quite simply mean LESS sovrignity for the UK not more.

Then if you take time to understand "sovrignity" it is a load of gonads. It's a legal term which has become a philopshical concept. So forget all that. Just ask people to name the EU laws that they personally dislike. What is it that EU laws do, that adversly affect you day to day, that you dislike? Could be the minium wage? Anti-pollution laws and insisting on clean beaches? Or maybe you hold shares in phone companies and don't want free phone roaming? Or you like high levels of hormones in meat and think the EU shouldn't have high food standards laws?

If all this tinkles you off, present the counter arguement. Outline how brexit can be a great thing (no one else has or seems to be able to). If you can't it is not because the FT are biased, or someone rigged something, or May is really a Remainer etc....it is becuase there isn't a logical arguement for brexit. It does not stack up as a way to provide benifits to the UK. If you take the time to pull brexit apart and understand its complex impliactions, in every rational scenerio, it leaves the UK worse off. That means your kids get a worse future.
 
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