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Politics, politics, politics

scaramanga said:
AKA reacting to the wants and needs of the electorate and giving them what they so clearly wanted.
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What the nation wants and what it needs are not necessarily the same thing. His supposed job was to do the best for the Country. In reality he didn’t give two hoots for the Country.
 
parklane1 said:
"The point the prime minister is making is that we wish to have a global system where people's skills are the basis on which they are able to work in the UK.

"At the moment, we have two systems in place - one for people coming to the UK from outside the EU and one for people coming under the rules of free movement.

"It's a fact that people coming under the system of free movement don't need a visa and those from outside the EU do."

The spokesman said an immigration white paper setting out the proposed new system was due to be published "shortly".

There is obviously to much sense in those words for some to understand. Especially that silly cow Nicola Sturgeon.
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What are your views on where the low skilled imigrants should come from? Nurses, carers, menial construction, fruit picking etc Peoples skills tend not to be the biggest factor, but availability, and flexability and cheapness are. The nice thing about Europe is when the work is over, you can get on a coach from Victoria and be home in a few hours. May not be so easy with people from Africa or wherever. What kinds of rights would they have here, equal or a kind of second class citizen?
 
scaramanga said:
Our bloated welfare state
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The elderly would be left by themselves without care and support. That is the truth of the matter. The majority of people caring for older people in the UK are not Brits. Why and how will that change? How would we as a country afford it? Raise taxes to pay Brits more to do the work? Even then we'd probably struggle to get enough people to care for our aging population.

Or would prefer our economy slowed? Construction projects stalled, fruit growing in the UK dried up? Walk around Spurs stadium and spot the British labourers leaving site. Most are not from here. The Forman and better paid jobs are filled by Brits, but the less well paid roles are not in the main.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The elderly would be left by themselves without care and support. That is the truth of the matter. The majority of people caring for older people in the UK are not Brits. Why and how will that change? How would we as a country afford it? Raise taxes to pay Brits more to do the work? Even then we'd probably struggle to get enough people to care for our aging population.

Or would prefer our economy slowed? Construction projects stalled, fruit growing in the UK dried up? Walk around Spurs stadium and spot the British labourers leaving site. Most are not from here. The Forman and better paid jobs are filled by Brits, but the less well paid roles are not in the main.
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Just stop their Sky subscriptions until they do the work.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The elderly would be left by themselves without care and support. That is the truth of the matter. The majority of people caring for older people in the UK are not Brits. Why and how will that change? How would we as a country afford it? Raise taxes to pay Brits more to do the work? Even then we'd probably struggle to get enough people to care for our aging population.

Or would prefer our economy slowed? Construction projects stalled, fruit growing in the UK dried up? Walk around Spurs stadium and spot the British labourers leaving site. Most are not from here. The Forman and better paid jobs are filled by Brits, but the less well paid roles are not in the main.
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I get your point about foreign workers and I sometimes worry as someone who is pro brexit and believes we should control immigration(should control all our laws actually) I come across as anti foreign workers when I am really not. Recently my father in law was in Haywards Heath hospital and the staff there the nurses and porters could not have been more caring and professional.

They all had accents, I of course did not ask them where they were from, one I did not want to offend and two I did not care, thought they were great and that is all that matters. So I am well aware that we need people from other countries and why would any sensible person be against that if they are filling a position that is needed.

My only issue and @scaramanga touches on this when he says stop their sky subscriptions is when people say foreign workers do the jobs brits dont want to do. Well if the are positions available after we have got our work shy scum back into work then grant more visas. But I can not stand the idea that people who are fit to work are allowed to shirk off. It is not right and not because I am jealous or envious but because it clearly causes societal problems down the line.

Working when you do not want to do a job and I had years of that in the cold on the building sites before I became a locksmith teaches you humility, perseverance, it gives you a respect for your environment because you realise how hard you have to work to pay for things, it teaches you about controlling your own finances. Working in a job you hate is actually good for you it breeds character and strength, morals that you can then pass down to your children.

I would put the cavat in here that with forcing our dossers to work should go hand in hand with more adult learning opportunities. School is not for everyone, we mature at different times in life, I talk from experience here. So say you have an 18 year old lad dropped out from education. Maybe he should be forced to go stack shelves in tesco on a night shift. He might not like it but after a few years I bet 95% of the ones forced to work would take on retraining and refocus on education when they realise how tough the real world is. Hard work is good for the soul, I want to say it never did me any harm but then I do have parkinson's so maybe that would be a bit cheeky.

Immigrants will always be needed in this country, it is just how many that I think upsets people and the are a lot of us wondering why the tracksuit wearing kids with their stupid jd carrier bags over the shoulder lazy scum who sit around town centres all day are not out there doing some of the jobs that the hard working eastern europeans do.
 
scaramanga said:
It still shows that the electorate nearly always votes without knowing what they're getting. For many, the intricacies of macroeconomics are well beyond their comprehension anyway, so they can't know any outcomes.

Yet we still let them vote however they wish to vote.
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8 out of 10 elections are won by the taller candidate. Humans vote for people with good genes, as demonstrated by height and symmetrical faces. We are really still that base. Stone age brains in a space age world
 
SpurMeUp said:
What are your views on where the low skilled imigrants should come from? Nurses, carers, menial construction, fruit picking etc Peoples skills tend not to be the biggest factor, but availability, and flexability and cheapness are. The nice thing about Europe is when the work is over, you can get on a coach from Victoria and be home in a few hours. May not be so easy with people from Africa or wherever. What kinds of rights would they have here, equal or a kind of second class citizen?
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Robots + students (when HE is de-neo-liberalised again)
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Which the DUP tried to do last night, however Labour whips had no idea this was going on, made no attempt to get their vote out, and lost by five when the DUP supported a Labour amendment. If ignorant posters on a football message board can predict this sort of thing, the Labour whips should be able to. The ERG may not be able to organise a putsch in a beer hall, but Labour doesn’t look too competent either.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1064966408180826120
 
Happy for assets/ equity in the house to pay for senior care (taxes you paid will not cover it) or should it be covered by the state?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
By withdrawing any financial assistance. If they can afford to live off of family or thin air good luck to them, otherwise they can starve for all I care. I do not include cancer or disabled people, i am talking about the absolute dregs of society.
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You are happy to punish children because their parents are fudgeups ... Let them starve?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
By withdrawing any financial assistance. If they can afford to live off of family or thin air good luck to them, otherwise they can starve for all I care. I do not include cancer or disabled people, i am talking about the absolute dregs of society.
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Some of those “dregs” will have serious illnesses and thus be disabled.
What about those “dregs”?
Whose going to sort the dregs with mental problems?
 
If you accept the government figures on unemployment, it is at very low levels. Now, not all unemployed are "work-shy scum" not even the most ardent right-winger believes that. So with very low levels of unemployment, coupled with only a fraction of those unemployed actually being "workshy scum", how then would these people assume the roles that migrant labour has been doing?

It's just nonsense to suggest that there is this army of idle people ready to fill vacancies in care work or whatever else.

Most people who get some kind of benefit are in work already.
 
Sometimes there are no good options and the least bad options are the ones you chose. A decent welfare state is the best solution for a decent society overall.

We used to have governments looking for full labour, there would be a job and it would cover a house and basic standard of living if you wanted it. this is not possible due to a number of reasons (nairu, inefficiencies of government and planning etc.)

We now have a system that needs unemploymemt to work, it's built into the system, we are importing labour to keep low skilled workers wages down in order to keep inflation low for the masess and we demonise them.

Either work for full employment or support those spit out of the system or just don't give a brick and see which one is better overall.... I would prefer to pay a bit more in order not to have to see a chav dying on the street (or more likely stabbing someone for a few quid) myself
 
r-u-s-x said:
You are happy to punish children because their parents are fudgeups ... Let them starve?
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Food tokens at supermarkets or take them into care. Actually and you might think im joking here but I am not, it is about time we had a public political conversation about what sort of people can have children. They stop through medical means some mentally disabled people reproducing. The is an argument to be said it should be extended to others. It would need to be done humanly and thought through properly but it is something we should think about.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Food tokens at supermarkets or take them into care. Actually and you might think im joking here but I am not, it is about time we had a public political conversation about what sort of people can have children. They stop through medical means some mentally disabled people reproducing. The is an argument to be said it should be extended to others. It would need to be done humanly and thought through properly but it is something we should think about.
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Food tokens are used in the US, taking them into care (perhaps work houses?) would cost you more so is not a solution ..

What sort of people can reproduce ? Careful with giving government the right for forced sterilisation . Even if we don't go to the obvious the UK and our satellites don't have a very positive track record
 
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