Politics, politics, politics

[ShipOfTheseus]

An impeccable chancellor..... if you like people spending your money on things you neither want, need nor can afford.

Things like Sure Start centres, NHS waiting list reductions, teaching assistants, tax credits? Lots of people who neither needed nor wanted any of those were still glad to see other people get them.

 

[r-u-s-x]

An impeccable chancellor..... if you like people spending your money on things you neither want, need nor can afford.

I didn't want, need or afford Brexit so it shouldn't happen - is this how it works?

 

[scaramanga]

Things like Sure Start centres, NHS waiting list reductions, teaching assistants, tax credits? Lots of people who neither needed nor wanted any of those were still glad to see other people get them.

The first three are great to have when we can afford them - it's thoroughly irresponsible to continue borrowing so heavily to pay for them because you've apparently "ended boom and bust." I'd imagine most children could tell that his claim was a ridiculous one and that spending as if it were true would lead to severe consequences.

Tax credits I'm not so sure about. They're a disincentive to work, and they've created a drain on taxpayers that is rapidly becoming a drain on employment.

 

[scaramanga]

I didn't want, need or afford Brexit so it shouldn't happen - is this how it works?

It doesn't have to happen to you. There are plenty of countries not currently going through Brexit.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It doesn't have to happen to you. There are plenty of countries not currently going through Brexit.

you didn't have to have G Brown there are plenty of other countries where he wasn't Chancellor.

 

[scaramanga]

you didn't have to have G Brown there are plenty of other countries where he wasn't Chancellor.

Or you just vote his government out.

 

[r-u-s-x]

it was a mirror to show that moaning that you didn't want or need was largely irrelevant as in democracy it doesn't matter what you (individual) want and need.

 

[scaramanga]

it was a mirror to show that moaning that you didn't want or need was largely irrelevant as in democracy it doesn't matter what you (individual) want and need.

You conveniently left out the bit about being able to afford it. The country couldn't afford his levels of spending even in a boom period and it's still fudging us now.

With the benefit of either hindsight or a very basic understanding of economics, most could have predicted this outcome (although, admittedly not the magnitude of the bust). Faced with the choice of those nice to haves and 10+ years of austerity or none of the above, I suspect plenty would choose none of the above.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Tax credits I'm not so sure about. They're a disincentive to work, and they've created a drain on taxpayers that is rapidly becoming a drain on employment.

Surely the reverse. Tax credits were an incentive to take on part-time work instead of signing on, on the assumption that easing people into work would yield better long-term results than maintaining them on benefits.

 

[r-u-s-x]

You conveniently left out the bit about being able to afford it. The country couldn't afford his levels of spending even in a boom period and it's still fudging us now.

With the benefit of either hindsight or a very basic understanding of economics, most could have predicted this outcome (although, admittedly not the magnitude of the bust). Faced with the choice of those nice to haves and 10+ years of austerity or none of the above, I suspect plenty would choose none of the above.

we could afford it if it wasn't for the global crash that was totally unexpected. I think we could afford and can point to lots of papers and articles that agree and I am sure you could do the opposite left out afford to not get sidetracked.

None of what you point out in hindsight change the fact his spending was wanted and needed at the time.

 

[scaramanga]

Surely the reverse. Tax credits were an incentive to take on part-time work instead of signing on, on the assumption that easing people into work would yield better long-term results than maintaining them on benefits.

Nobody who works for me is willing to work overtime anymore. Due to how tax credits are calculated, their differential tax rate on that increased income is one far greater than anyone on their salary should be earning.

 

[scaramanga]

we could afford it if it wasn't for the global crash that was totally unexpected. I think we could afford and can point to lots of papers and articles that agree and I am sure you could do the opposite left out afford to not get sidetracked.

None of what you point out in hindsight change the fact his spending was wanted and needed at the time.

It was wanted and needed a lot less than preparing for this current predicament IMO.

Regardless of one's ability to predict this particular crash, it was fairly obvious that there was going to be a crash - only Gordon Brown would think otherwise. Ensuring that the country was in a position to navigate such a crash is one of the prime responsibilities of any chancellor in a boom.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It was wanted and needed a lot less than preparing for this current predicament IMO.

Regardless of one's ability to predict this particular crash, it was fairly obvious that there was going to be a crash - only Gordon Brown would think otherwise. Ensuring that the country was in a position to navigate such a crash is one of the prime responsibilities of any chancellor in a boom.

We were in a position to weather a typical crash hence tories position to match spending, lets not do this I feel a sense of deja vu.

 

[Robspur12]

The Tories love brick like this, as they can hand out largesse to their spiv mates in the construction....all at the taxpayer's expense.

They waste money on their pet projects while at the same time destroying public services which help vulnerable people through deep cuts supposedly to bring down the deficit.

 

[the dza]

They waste money on their pet projects while at the same time destroying public services which help vulnerable people through deep cuts supposedly to bring down the deficit.

Pet projects = make sure connections get paid.

Destroy public services = privatisation/out-sourcing = make sure connections get paid.

 

[glasgowspur]

we could afford it if it wasn't for the global crash that was totally unexpected. I think we could afford and can point to lots of papers and articles that agree and I am sure you could do the opposite left out afford to not get sidetracked.

None of what you point out in hindsight change the fact his spending was wanted and needed at the time.

Anyone with any sense could see the crash coming, money being loaned to those who can't afford it never ends well.

 

[scaramanga]

We were in a position to weather a typical crash hence tories position to match spending, lets not do this I feel a sense of deja vu.

I'm fairly sure we have been through this before and I still disagree with both you and the Conservative party of the time.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I'm fairly sure we have been through this before and I still disagree with both you and the Conservative party of the time.

Yes and I respect that you have done the reading and come up with your own opinion hence I dropped the affordable and it was only incidental to the point I was making

 

[r-u-s-x]

Anyone with any sense could see the crash coming, money being loaned to those who can't afford it never ends well.

Hindsight and that, people thought that forfeiture would follow historical levels without factoring that if you sell your debt you are a lot less bothered to who you loan to.

 

[glasgowspur]

Hindsight and that, people thought that forfeiture would follow historical levels without factoring that if you sell your debt you are a lot less bothered to who you loan to.

Speaking for my self it wasn't hindsight. You can't have that much borrowing without it coming back to bite your arse.
The lending levels globally, nationally and personally were out of control.
We moved house during that period and were offered mortgages at ridiculous loan to value rates. 8 times our salary in one case.