I would be interested to hear Brexiteers answer to this.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
I would be interested to hear Brexiteers answer to this.
Dude.... their survival As you put it, depends on Brexit failing either by Britain becoming an economic basket case (hard Brexit) or giving up some power within the EU for not very much if anything at all (soft Brexit).
We are a big part of the EU yes and us leaving does them damage as well.... But EU is bigger and the damage to us will be worse.
So in conclusion. The EU would prefer it if we stayed it makes sense for them and us... But if we leave then they have no duty of care to us. And will be negociating the best deal for the remaining 27 members and the EU project as a whole..... which thankfully is probably some kind of soft Brexit.
Well from my prospective, the cost is already too much. It's all so pointless. But I will say if the referendum was conducted the first time without leave lies... I would be a lot less 'moanie' about it.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
They believe that being in the EU will make them all richer and secure in the longer term, by giving a better out than in trade deal that would put the EU at risk.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
How so?
This is the logic presented, relentlessly. The EU will not offer a good deal because otherwise another country might leave. Thats about it, right?
Pretty much yes, benefits of being in the club must outweigh those of not being in. That's how the EU works every one gives up a little for a greater gain, but if you can piggy back on others sacrifice the system will fall down.
Surely the governments and electorates of all the other EU countries are capable of realising that if it requires threats from the EU to keep everyone else in, that out must be a better option.
If out is worse than in, why would the EU bother with punishing us, isn't being out its own punishment?
I don't agree it's punishment or threats, they will not allow the benefits of being on the EU.
a lazy analogy would be a golf club, everyone pays fees so you can keep the upkeep, mow the lawns etc. If one member is allowed to use the course without paying fees they get the benefits of the course and it goes as normal, if everyone suddenly decides to join course goes to ruin them everyone is worse off.
It's a benefit if you are the only one not paying in, if no one is paying in every one is worse off.. Human nature to want to be the one cheating so have to stop anyone cheating.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
What about the remain lies? you know no plans for an EU national army, no plans for a harmonised tax system across Europe with gained revenue then dished out by the EU to different territories of the state of Europe. One would imagine that after the amount they have taken from Britain to build roads and transport systems in eastern europe they would try to take even more from the country to bribe the eastern europeans.
No the were no lies on the remain side.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Cash? Like tax It can only function if those benefiting most from it pay more. Germany increase their exports through artificially low exchange rate and we get a larger service (including financial) industry, both get more out than we put in.
They would, wouldn't they? That's what the Canada option is I guess. On a spectrum from Hard Brexit (WTO) to Soft Brexit (Norway) the Canada deal is at the "harder" end. [/frankiehoward]
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Right, so lets follow this through.
We leave. We trade freely. The logic follows that other countries will also want the same.
Which ones?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
So if we can have a free trade deal with the EU, post brexit, whats the fuss all about?
Why all end of the world rhetoric?
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I know people will say that the EU is our biggest market but I would like us to trade with an increasing affluent rest of the world and not so much a poorer Europe. So on that basis I would like us out of the EU as well as a weaker pound is boasting our exports and pretty much all of our holidays are outside of Europe, being in the EU is not a great thing for me.
The only thing that the EU does that I like as a former kitesurfer is its strong stance on sewage and clean beaches, but it sort of goes in with a lot of what I would call light politics. If the tories try and erode workers rights and environmental laws then like what happened in the 90's when the liberals rose up and became more important. It will happen that the tories get voted out and a national government will be formed reflecting the will of the people.
Apart from the publics views on immigration and laws being made up by people we cant vote out(the EU) this country is very liberal and will always vote that way, when the tories get in it is with liberal minded or small C conservatives like Cameron. May only creeped home in the last election and will get slaughtered in the next one by Corbyn.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
We leave we trade freely without free access to the EU, doubt anyone would follow us as everyone has this option now and decided being part of it offers value.
With full access, I imagine Poland straight away and then nationalist governments in Holland and France will point to our deal and use it to gain power then leave on same terms, rinse and repeat until the bloc is of no use and everyone is worse off.
All ifs and buts, however it is what the EU have indicated is at least partially driving their position.