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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
parklane1
Tony Galvin
A lot of folks said that about the first one, you never stop hearing from the sore losers.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Well we have had 2 years of project fear so i would guess you were right. Not sure but think Farage is so far detached he is out of touch with public feeling.
The are people like me who will always be leave but a lot have been bullied by project fear.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
I'm not sure its true to say people have been bullied by project fear (but if people are that stupid, let's send them to Europe and keep the Europeans
).But we have had a realistic taste of Brexit, like a test drive. No lying sales man or fear mongering insurance company. (Do those analogies work??)
So a genuine position to vote on whether a Tory led Brexit is palatable. Rather than than an ideological leave/remain.
It's actually quite a sensible position.
I think there has been a lot more information about what Brexit might look like since the referendum than there was in the build-up to it. We've seen how the government has handled negotiations to date and can make our own judgements on that.
I know that the Irish border was talked about in the campaign leading up to the referendum vote, but it was never really an issue that factored into my decision to vote Remain. If there was a 2nd referendum, this would be more at the front of my mind than before, I'd still vote Remain but with some different considerations, that being one of them. I think it's fair to say that there would be other people who would change their vote based on considerations that have come more into play since the referendum. I also think that it wouldn't go all Remain's way, some people might change their vote from Remain to Leave, based on how things have been playing out since the referendum. It'd be a very close vote again I think, though I would think Remain would win it, but who knows?
At the moment, I don't think we should declare interest in a 2nd referendum -- but when we know what the final deal is shaping up to be and can more gauge the consequences of leaving, then I'd be in favour of ratifying the deal with a referendum so that the public can chose to leave on those terms or stay in the EU.
I know that the Irish border was talked about in the campaign leading up to the referendum vote, but it was never really an issue that factored into my decision to vote Remain. If there was a 2nd referendum, this would be more at the front of my mind than before, I'd still vote Remain but with some different considerations, that being one of them. I think it's fair to say that there would be other people who would change their vote based on considerations that have come more into play since the referendum. I also think that it wouldn't go all Remain's way, some people might change their vote from Remain to Leave, based on how things have been playing out since the referendum. It'd be a very close vote again I think, though I would think Remain would win it, but who knows?
At the moment, I don't think we should declare interest in a 2nd referendum -- but when we know what the final deal is shaping up to be and can more gauge the consequences of leaving, then I'd be in favour of ratifying the deal with a referendum so that the public can chose to leave on those terms or stay in the EU.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
How exactly do you work that out?
I would say we havent tasted Brexit at all, how could we possibly have?
We have tasted life caused by the brexit vote - and the general uncertainty that follows between that and actual Brexit. Which is only ever going to be a temporary state anyway.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Even then, we still wouldnt know the full consequences. Its almost like Scara/GB said before - you'd need to give it a period of years before the full extent of things could be understood.
It could be all looks gloomy on the exit deal, but then further trade deals swing things round completely - we wouldnt know that at the time, would we?
And, for the sake of balance, I fully recognise it can also go the other way.
While I agree we would be able to make a more informed decision, I dont think it would be " fully informed" at all.
That's true, but I still think it'd be reasonable to have a 2nd vote at that stage. If we don't, then we don't, I'm not going to cry about it either way -- and I do support the Government's and Labour's (well, Corbyn's) position of saying there won't be a 2nd referendum, as saying otherwise would undermine the negotiating position.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'd definitely be happy for there to be a 3rd referendum 10-20 years down the line, once Brexit has had a chance to succeed.
But remember Europhobes had to wait/campaign more than 40 years for a 2nd referendum.
But remember Europhobes had to wait/campaign more than 40 years for a 2nd referendum.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Hmmm, ok, point taken.
But we have certainly seen a more realistic picture than any picture that was painted in the campaigns - ie no chocolate boxes and roses or doom and gloom
Ok yeah not fully informed. But the fact that we will have a more informed decision should be key, shouldn't it?
As for giving it years before we can evaluate. Even though almost all foreasts point to negativity.... that' surely nonsense.
Otherwise, I say the .uk governmnt gives me 1 trillion dollars (said in a doctor evil accent and using dollars for dramatic licence). And I will make the economy and life better for all.. But you must give me at least 10-20 years. And not judge me when I blow most of it on coke and expensive hookers
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
There is a school of thought that a second ref actually strengthens the negotiating position.
This guy says it better than me and the full thread has a little more detail.
I must admit, I hadn't thought of it that way. Something to ponder.
I think Our economy has boomed since being part of the EU. Isnt that the case?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
How is it nonsense? It may well take years to reach a stable position with everything in place. Perhaps future trade deals that bring more wealth etc take some time to establish - until when Brexit looks bad, but from when suddenly it doesnt...
We will have a more informed decision, but still then not all the pieces on the table.
And it seems only logical we wont really be in a position to judge the whole thing until long enough after that we do have all the pieces on the table and can make an actual judgement.
I dont give a brick what forecasts say right now, because non of them know what the hell is going to happen with, so how can any be even close to accurate?
We are only just about to start talking EU future deal, nobody knows what it looks like at this stage. Just as nobody knows what other deals/changes/opportunities could be around the corner.
It a step into the unknown.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Indeed. If in 3 years time we have Ukraine deal with the EU and have joined the TPP, we'll be laughing all the way to the bank