Politics, politics, politics

[the dza]

It may not be a popular opinion but GB is correct.
Let's not forget that it's not Britain that has waged wars of aggression against our European neighbours. Or invaded them.
It wasn't Britain that stirred up discontent in our neighbours colonies.
Nor firget that Britain that twice in 50 years fought with their "allies" France to defend their soil only for de Gaulle to shaft us and block our entry into the "common market".

We should face up to reality, the Europeans don't like the English.
They don't really like each much either truth be told, but there's just enough common ground to let them get by.
We don't have that.

Another plus point of the European Union imo, all helps to keep the peace and stability across Europe. Even outside of it, we will hopefully have close ties politically and economically for that reason. Progress away from the past and being enemies with our neighbours.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It may not be a popular opinion but GB is correct.
Let's not forget that it's not Britain that has waged wars of aggression against our European neighbours. Or invaded them.
It wasn't Britain that stirred up discontent in our neighbours colonies.
Nor firget that Britain that twice in 50 years fought with their "allies" France to defend their soil only for de Gaulle to shaft us and block our entry into the "common market".

We should face up to reality, the Europeans don't like the English.
They don't really like each much either truth be told, but there's just enough common ground to let them get by.
We don't have that.

How far back do we go, we started plenty of wars with our European neighbours, no expert but I also thought we were just as keen to have ww1 as Germany were, they may have rung the bell but we were very much keen to have the fight.

Either way using ww2 to champion current day Britain seems a bit redundant to me.

 

[StephenH]

Another plus point of the European Union imo, all helps to keep the peace and stability across Europe. Even outside of it, we will hopefully have close ties politically and economically for that reason. Progress away from the past and being enemies with our neighbours.

But where is the sport in that?
Brextiers want to chase johnny foreigner down, over hedgerows and fields with sound of hooves and baying of the pack! Tally Ho!

Well you get the picture, folks!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Another plus point of the European Union imo, all helps to keep the peace and stability across Europe. Even outside of it, we will hopefully have close ties politically and economically for that reason. Progress away from the past and being enemies with our neighbours.

Not really. That's NATO. Like in Yugoslavia (which the EU did bugger all about). Britain and France are the only sizable military powers in Europe (aside from Russia). I'm pretty sure that axis will continue to defend continental interests, irrespective of the EU

I'm all for international ties, but international, not supranational

 

[Gutter Boy]

How far back do we go, we started plenty of wars with our European neighbours, no expert but I also thought we were just as keen to have ww1 as Germany were, they may have rung the bell but we were very much keen to have the fight.

Either way using ww2 to champion current day Britain seems a bit redundant to me.

Britain has been very shameful in lots of its historic dealings - imperialism, slave trade all that.

I specifically meant that there's a national characteristic of bloody-minded defiance in the face of all odds, when it feels threatened. Surrendering sovereignty for the sake of an easy life is easy to do. Standing up for principles, however difficult that makes things, is noble. This is a comparable 'red pill' moment IMO.

 

[the dza]

Not really. That's NATO. Like in Yugoslavia (which the EU did bugger all about). Britain and France are the only sizable military powers in Europe (aside from Russia). I'm pretty sure that axis will continue to defend continental interests, irrespective of the EU

I'm all for international ties, but international, not supranational

I don't mean in terms of a fighting force, in which case we all hide behind America's skirt in NATO (though the French are not completely in NATO). But to have economic and political ties with neighbours undoubtedly contributes to peace and stability with them.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It may not be a popular opinion but GB is correct.
Let's not forget that it's not Britain that has waged wars of aggression against our European neighbours. Or invaded them.
It wasn't Britain that stirred up discontent in our neighbours colonies.
Nor firget that Britain that twice in 50 years fought with their "allies" France to defend their soil only for de Gaulle to shaft us and block our entry into the "common market".

We should face up to reality, the Europeans don't like the English.
They don't really like each much either truth be told, but there's just enough common ground to let them get by.
We don't have that.

Thank goodness most European people don’t think like you. The EU has ensured Europe hasn’t had major disputes or wars and has traded instead of fought. Startling how short memories are or the appreciation of <100 year old history.

Why did European leaders continually say they wanted Britain to stay and were saddened by the result? And until march 2018 the community are happy to take back the UK on previous terms if the population change their mind. What you write and reality are not aligned.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[glasgowspur]

How far back do we go, we started plenty of wars with our European neighbours, no expert but I also thought we were just as keen to have ww1 as Germany were, they may have rung the bell but we were very much keen to have the fight.

Either way using ww2 to champion current day Britain seems a bit redundant to me.

We've had plenty of wars with our neighbours, but actually started very few of them.
I'm not championing anything.
Those are facts, dispute them if you will but in two world wars Britian fought beside France against Germany to protect themselves.
France repeatedly blocked Britains entry into the common market.

 

[glasgowspur]

Thank goodness most European people don’t think like you. The EU has ensured Europe hasn’t had major disputes or wars and has traded instead of fought. Startling how short memories are or the appreciation of <100 year old history.

Why did European leaders continually say they wanted Britain to stay and were saddened by the result? And until march 2018 the community are happy to take back the UK on previous terms if the population change their mind. What you write and reality are not aligned.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

You have no idea what I think, what I have said isn't my opinion, it's fact.
Personally I think it's tragic we are leaving the EU.
I'm all for staying and trying to work out our differences, but that doesnt seem likely as there is little political will on either side.

 

[glasgowspur]

Can we stop saying tge tge common market was set up to stop wars.
It was set as a bulwark against Russia in the east and the American influence in West.
Our perceived, and actually quite far sighted as it turns out, closeness to America along with our trading links to the commonwealth is why we were vetoed.

 

[StephenH]

1967.....glasgow 1967 - Sgt Pepper, we beat Chelsea in the FA cup, Puppet on a String' Sandie Shaw and it only feels like yesterday!
Except it was 50 years ago....

 

[r-u-s-x]

We've had plenty of wars with our neighbours, but actually started very few of them.
I'm not championing anything.
Those are facts, dispute them if you will but in two world wars Britian fought beside France against Germany to protect themselves.
France repeatedly blocked Britains entry into the common market.

What has this got to do with the EU now - was the main point I was raising. De Gaul didnt want us in the common market means we should leave the EU - I am missing the connection.

 

[StephenH]

What has this got to do with the EU now - was the main point I was raising. De Gaul didnt want us in the common market means we should leave the EU - I am missing the connection.

Yes - We won Eurovision!

those were the days jumpers as......

Seriously r-u-s-x its called living in the past.

There is a lot of song titles in here..

 

[glasgowspur]

1967.....glasgow 1967 - Sgt Pepper, we beat Chelsea in the FA cup, Puppet on a String' Sandie Shaw and it only feels like yesterday!
Except it was 50 years ago....

And Celtic won the European cup (still hearing about that one at every opportunity they have)....... and I wasn't even born

 

[StephenH]

And Celtic won the European cup (still hearing about that one at every opportunity they have)....... and I wasn't even born

Watched it in black white on the telly. I was 14 and started to get into football around then. I was late to party due to lots of surgery in my early teens. But still remember all the lovely nurses with black stocking and suspenders.
But I digress

 

[glasgowspur]

What has this got to do with the EU now - was the main point I was raising. De Gaul didnt want us in the common market means we should leave the EU - I am missing the connection.

I've never said we should leave, in fact I clearly stated I think it's a tragic mistake to.
But I don't think it's a mistake just for us, but for the EU and Europe in general.
Unfortunately there are elements within the EU who would be glad to get the UK out of Europe as it would give them the opportunity to push their agenda.

 

[glasgowspur]

Watched it in black white on the telly. I was 14 and started to get into football around then. I was late to party due to lots of surgery in my early teens. But still remember all the lovely nurses with black stocking and suspenders.
But I digress

Now that kind of digressing I can listen to all day.

 

[monkeybarry]

Yes - We won Eurovision!

those were the days jumpers as......

Seriously r-u-s-x its called living in the past.

There is a lot of song titles in here..

Does that make Brexit Livin On A Prayer?!

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/943037113406238720

 

[the dza]

Can we stop saying tge tge common market was set up to stop wars.
It was set as a bulwark against Russia in the east and the American influence in West.
Our perceived, and actually quite far sighted as it turns out, closeness to America along with our trading links to the commonwealth is why we were vetoed.

It was set up for that reason as much as any other, but evolved over time. It began with the European Coal and Steel Community and one of the stated aims was that "it would make war between member states impossible." This was the basis for what became the European Union.