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Politics, politics, politics

DTA said:
What planet are you living on? Inflation has risen, that means the cost of everything has gone up. So yes you are getting poorer. Growth lags behind the rest of the developed world and public spending continues to be cut. And now we have to pay 100billion for a worse deal than we have now... seriously WTF????

But the worst thing about this is... We haven't even left yet.... the worst is still to come. Anyone that thinks we will get better trade deals with big economies like China and the USA than we would as part of the EU is on crack. We will get bent over... why? Because we will be the minor partner in any such trade deal. Ie the bigger economies will pretty much dictate the terms.
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Buy less landfill, grow some of your own food, generate some of your own energy, mend and swap, and rediscover humanity, freed from economic slavery.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Nope - state aid laws, anti-competition laws and freedom of movement expressly forbids them.

If we are shrinking the economy and introducing more state control, we won't have to pander to big business at all. Localism should be incentivised to fill its place

All the world's problems are caused by overpopulation. We need to manage the decrease carefully so it is gradual. Healthy ageing is the key (Japan have already got this sussed with their decreasing and ageing population), along with de-growth measures like universal basic income.
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None of that is on anyone's agenda, it's laughable that you are so critical of the status quo while being wide eyed (and one eyed) with regards to the probable alternative.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Nope - state aid laws, anti-competition laws and freedom of movement expressly forbids them.
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You've misunderstood the rules.

Nationalisation is allowed as long as it passes some open competition criteria. Energy companies and public transport are state owned in numerous European countries. In fact many of them are operating services here.

The EU does not force governments to fund through PFIs and the government is free to buy out existing deals should it want to.

It would be perfectly legal to make companies advertise posts in the UK before overseas. It would also be legal to change our rules for EU migrants so that they can only stay here if they had a job after three months. More Immigration comes from outside the EU than within, if the government wanted to reduce this it could, it chooses not to because we have a skills shortage and lower immigration would damage the economy.

If low wages are the particular concern then the government could increase the minimum wage.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Buy less landfill, grow some of your own food, generate some of your own energy, mend and swap, and rediscover humanity, freed from economic slavery.
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Dude... are you being serious? You think this is the answer to Brexit? What party is suggesting this as a post Brexit reality?

It sounds alright... But completely unrealistic. What is much more likely to happen is we will be butt raped by big American corpotarations who will give us food that the EU don't see as safe for consumption. Our NHS will opened up to competition from the us which will ultimate lead to its death... due to unsustainable costs. China and India will take what little is left of our manufacturing industries and the city will be halved in size because they no long have passporting rights to the biggest market in the world.

And breath..... Yeah but your probably right... ok we can get an allotment and grow our own food. WTF dude.
 
milo said:
The Legatum Institute's (who are driving government Brexit policy) modus operandi is crashing the economy so that the mega rich can buy up assets cheap. This is from a recent Private Eye

IMG_20171128_231425.jpg
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All this means nothing to those who have forever been on low wages, unable to step on the housing ladder and struggling on a day to day basis. Decades of misery.
 
milo said:
I'm not sure that this board is that representative of the general population and some Brexit supporting posters have said that they have stopped posting in this thread. I am not sure that we can take their silence to be a change of mind.

We are seeing some movement in the opinion polls but not enough to make politicians change their position. They will not do that unless they think they might lose their seat through supporting Brexit. I think that support for remaining in the EU needs to be significantly (something like 60% - 40%) ahead of leave for several months that to happen.
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Knowing the posters on here quite well if people have a strong opinion to express they will! It's what we love about GG, that and GutterBoy :cool: I agree we're not at a point now to exit the exit, but there is a shift in appetite for Brexit imo. We need some more honesty and explanation about the implications of Brexit from politician and the media rather than them hiding in fear of popularism (or representing their own agendas in the case of some newspaper owners). Politicians have a moral right to be braver - to express their true thoughts - they are the professionals in charge who must represent the peoples best interests, so they must express themselves with honesty and call it as they see it.

Tomorrow, Deputy PM Damian Green will take Prime Ministers questions as May is out the country. He is a strong Remainer. Asked which way he'd vote if the vote was run again, he's on record saying he'd vote Remain. Tomorrow he will take questions on the settlement bill and presumably defend the government on how it is conducting something he does not believe in. This absurdity will go on for a while, but it will crack, and then crumble quickly. Imo many are sitting on their hands waiting until the time is right.
 
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DTA said:
Dude... are you being serious? You think this is the answer to Brexit? What party is suggesting this as a post Brexit reality?

It sounds alright... But completely unrealistic. What is much more likely to happen is we will be butt raped by big American corpotarations who will give us food that the EU don't see as safe for consumption. Our NHS will opened up to competition from the us which will ultimate lead to its death... due to unsustainable costs. China and India will take what little is left of our manufacturing industries and the city will be halved in size because they no long have passporting rights to the biggest market in the world.

And breath..... Yeah but your probably right... ok we can get an allotment and grow our own food. WTF dude.
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I've been thinking of setting up my own party, based a bit on the Five Star Movement. I'm thinking of calling it the Joy and Whimsy Party. I just need to find my frontperson to do all the PR stuff, while I become shadowy and do all the plotting.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Knowing the posters on here quite well if people have a strong opinion to express they will! It's what we love about GG, that and GutterBoy :cool: I agree we're not at a point now to exit the exit, but there is a shift in appetite for Brexit imo. We need some more honesty and explanation aboutthe implications of Brexit from politician and the media rather than them hiding in fear of popularism (or representing their own agendas in the case of some newspaper owners). Politicians have a moral right to braver, to express their true thoughts - they are the professionals who must represent us, so they must do that with honesty.

Tomorrow, Deputy PM Damian Green will take Prime Ministers questions as May is out the country. He is a strong Remainer. Asked which way he'd vote if the vote was run again, he's on record saying he'd vote Remain. Tomorrow he will take questions on the settlement bill and presumably defend the government. This absurdity will go on for a while, but it will crack, and then crumble quickly. Imo many are sitting on their hands waiting until the time is right.
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I still think that's the Guardian/Twitter/north London echo chamber. No matter how many times Chuka Umunna, Polly Toynbee or AC Grayling say it, it doesn't make it true. Go to the shires - to Lincolnshire, Hampshire, North Yorkshire - and see how strong and positive people are about Brexit there.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I still think that's the Guardian/Twitter/north London echo chamber. No matter how many times Chuka Umunna, Polly Toynbee or AC Grayling say it, it doesn't make it true. Go to the shires - to Lincolnshire, Hampshire, North Yorkshire - and see how strong and positive people are about Brexit there.
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I'm sure there is still a strong feeling for Brexit in some places, maybe the promise of a return to more traditional British values holds sway. Of course Brexit itself has very little to do with delivering a return to tradition, unless that means making the working class poor. We need politicians with vision who can offer the elemental themes of Brexit honestly while in the EU customs union. I believe that is entirely possible.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I still think that's the Guardian/Twitter/north London echo chamber. No matter how many times Chuka Umunna, Polly Toynbee or AC Grayling say it, it doesn't make it true. Go to the shires - to Lincolnshire, Hampshire, North Yorkshire - and see how strong and positive people are about Brexit there.
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This worries me a bit. Mainly because you may be right.
 
DeleHarry said:
All this means nothing to those who have forever been on low wages, unable to step on the housing ladder and struggling on a day to day basis. Decades of misery.
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I agree but I do not believe that they voted Leave to turbo charge what had screwed them in the first place.
 
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken
 
r-u-s-x said:
I'm not getting a raise or bonus this year (so in real terms a paycut) while inflation is creeping up, mortgage payments increasing all direct consequences of Brexit... I am getting poorer
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Not sure I follow this one. The only direct consequence of brexit I'm aware of in this regard was the 25 basis point cut to interest rates straight after the vote, which would've had (if anything) the opposite effect of what you're suggesting.

Are you saying interest rates would never rise without brexit?
 
I think a lot of the financial issues here are not directly because of Brexit, or indicative of the future post Brexit, they are indicative of the uncertainty around Brexit.

Which is a different thing entirely.

Investors and markets want stability. Right now, and for the next few years, we dont have that. Post Brexit? Once the new world is established things can settle again. Maybe for worse, maybe better. Its yet to be seen.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Not sure I follow this one. The only direct consequence of brexit I'm aware of in this regard was the 25 basis point cut to interest rates straight after the vote, which would've had (if anything) the opposite effect of what you're suggesting.

Are you saying interest rates would never rise without brexit?
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Inflation raised (largely due to the fall in GBP) this leads to an increase in Interest Rates.
 
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