Politics, politics, politics

[richie_spur]

Research suggests that the 19-28 age group are the highest users of social media

Recent research also suggests that the 18-24 age group are the most susceptible to online propaganda and radicalisation


But.....


The 18-24 age group were the highest percentage of remainers

So does this mean that Putin's cash was wasted as it clearly failed to hit the most susceptible to online propaganda and radicalisation

Polling suggests that only about 1/3 of that age group bothered to vote. This is why I was annoyed by the post-vote interviews, mainly on the BBC it must be said, of young people moaning about 'their futures being ruined by older people'. If you want a say in a democracy, then it's at the ballot box, not on social media. Posting your opinion there (or here for that matter) doesn't count for brick. Perhaps it's more important for them to photograph and 'share' what they had for lunch than be a part of the democratic process...

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I'm sorry but I don't get your argument.

The demographics show that those most likely to be influenced by social media were the ones that voted to remain

Unless it was so nuanced that no one noticed

Twitter has a young demographic (but plenty middle aged on there.)

Facebook however is ubiquitous: lots and lots Boomers on there.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I agree to an extent with @DTA in that I wouldn't be surprised if Putin was involved.

Personally I'd imagine it wouldn't have had a *major* impact but I think it's plausible that it could have reinforced some wavering opinions. Then of course those opinions can influence others irl, so there's the possibility of a multiplier effect.

I think the most interesting points though are to consider that we've actually voted something in that Putin was likely pushing and would certainly approve of, and the black and white reaction of those that deny it.

Again, all we're seeing is remoaner this and project fear that. The reaction is so polarised and shuts down attempts at viewing it with nuance. It's like we've learned nothing in the last 18 months.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Research suggests that the 19-28 age group are the highest users of social media

Recent research also suggests that the 18-24 age group are the most susceptible to online propaganda and radicalisation


But.....


The 18-24 age group were the highest percentage of remainers

So does this mean that Putin's cash was wasted as it clearly failed to hit the most susceptible to online propaganda and radicalisation

Also meant to say, "social media" is not a homogenous thing. It's a fragmented landscape. It's a bit like referring to "sports fans" and claiming they all like the same sport or team.

Most younger people will use Instagram and Snapchat whereas Facebook will have more users in a higher age group. I think there's a real mix on Twitter.

And the granular detail you can get into with targeting users on Facebook is astonishing. There are any number of parameters you can set, and then set it up not only to target those people, but similar individuals where the algorithm will calculate that people that like certain things are also likely to like others, even where there's no obvious connection.

1984 is here.

 

[DTA]

I'm sorry but I don't get your argument.

The demographics show that those most likely to be influenced by social media were the ones that voted to remain

Unless it was so nuanced that no one noticed

@scaramanga and in particularly @Hotshot-Tottenham have already addressed this but I would just add that looking at age groups as a way of targeting advertising is for me a dated approach.

The level of specific targeting you can do on facebook advertising is breathtaking. A real simple example of this would be the fact you can target people that believe in Conspiracy theories that have concerns about immigration that live In a certain area... it is quite obvious what that kind of targeting can achieve. But that is a really simple example I would expect the Russian agents to be cross referencing 10s of these factors to build up personal psyhological profiles which would then determine whether those people would be able to influence others, share the information or simply be persuaded to vote a certain way etc etc.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Seriously disturbed by the latest reports to come out about French involvement in our referendum the summer before last.

The editor of the financial times was given an award https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/aug/08/ft-france-eu-lionel-barber-tweet
So the editor of a British newspaper, one that was one of the main driving forces in project fear that talked down Britains prospects, is given an award by a country that gets out more then it puts in to the EU.

That surely is an obvious case for foreign involment in our referendum, the French economy will be hit if they have to makeup our money in the EU budget, Paris has enough trouble keeping the French farmers in line, imagine if they can not give them such big handouts in the future.

Does Lionel Barber have questions to answer over his links to another country who had reason to try and sway our democratic process?

Hashtag project fear

and no i am not a bot i am real person who enjoys the music of paul weller and custard

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Seriously disturbed by the latest reports to come out about French involvement in our referendum the summer before last.

The editor of the financial times was given an award https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/aug/08/ft-france-eu-lionel-barber-tweet
So the editor of a British newspaper, one that was one of the main driving forces in project fear that talked down Britains prospects, is given an award by a country that gets out more then it puts in to the EU.

That surely is an obvious case for foreign involment in our referendum, the French economy will be hit if they have to makeup our money in the EU budget, Paris has enough trouble keeping the French farmers in line, imagine if they can not give them such big handouts in the future.

Does Lionel Barber have questions to answer over his links to another country who had reason to try and sway our democratic process?

Hashtag project fear

and no i am not a bot i am real person who enjoys the music of paul weller and custard

I don't believe you.

No-one likes the music of Paul Weller.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

@scaramanga and in particularly @Hotshot-Tottenham have already addressed this but I would just add that looking at age groups as a way of targeting advertising is for me a dated approach.

The level of specific targeting you can do on facebook advertising is breathtaking. A real simple example of this would be the fact you can target people that believe in Conspiracy theories that have concerns about immigration that live In a certain area... it is quite obvious what that kind of targeting can achieve. But that is a really simple example I would expect the Russian agents to be cross referencing 10s of these factors to build up personal psyhological profiles which would then determine whether those people would be able to influence others, share the information or simply be persuaded to vote a certain way etc etc.

On the targeting point: it's not just targets influencing others either.

It's that on Facebook you can build "look alike" audiences based on certain parameters.

This allows you to target whole swathes of people that you may not have thought would be open to your messaging as Facebook knows who likes what and can discover indirect / hidden links between these things and so can put your message in front of groups that otherwise you wouldn't have considered.

Then there's remarketing. You might search for something or visit a website. But then an ad related to that appears on Facebook. Drip, drip.

Or, if you're so inclined, it could be that Facebook (or others) picks up certain words you speak via the microphone on your smartphone and could retarget based on that.

I'd imagine that's the case if you use an Amazon Echo or Google Home. Someone's listening, that's for sure.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If we're getting into conspiracy theories, I still think there's something in the idea the Bundesnachrichtendienst manipulated Thomas Mair. That action in the last week of the campaign knocked a good 3% off leave's lead.

 

[DTA]

If we're getting into conspiracy theories, I still think there's something in the idea the Bundesnachrichtendienst manipulated Thomas Mair. That action in the last week of the campaign knocked a good 3% off leave's lead.

What part of what we are talking about is a conspiracy theory?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

If we're getting into conspiracy theories, I still think there's something in the idea the Bundesnachrichtendienst manipulated Thomas Mair. That action in the last week of the campaign knocked a good 3% off leave's lead.

No conspiracy theory from me, the editor of a daily british newspaper which was the most anti brexit paper out there with daily headlines of how the country would go bankrupt as soon as we voted out, a founding member of project fear, received an accolade from a foreign government. That is pure fact.

If he ever receives a job offer from the EU in the future with a £500,000 pension like Neil Kinnock then what I am privately thinking will have been true. But the facts are a national newspaper editor received an award from a foreign government for as they stated his excellent reporting on the EU. So yeah he has major questions to answer as do the French.

 

[scaramanga]

On the targeting point: it's not just targets influencing others either.

It's that on Facebook you can build "look alike" audiences based on certain parameters.

This allows you to target whole swathes of people that you may not have thought would be open to your messaging as Facebook knows who likes what and can discover indirect / hidden links between these things and so can put your message in front of groups that otherwise you wouldn't have considered.

Then there's remarketing. You might search for something or visit a website. But then an ad related to that appears on Facebook. Drip, drip.

Or, if you're so inclined, it could be that Facebook (or others) picks up certain words you speak via the microphone on your smartphone and could retarget based on that.

I'd imagine that's the case if you use an Amazon Echo or Google Home. Someone's listening, that's for sure.

It's still only marketing though, which despite what those involved will try and tell you is incredibly inefficient. You have to show to thousands to even get noticed by a handful of people, millions for hundreds. And that's just getting noticed/acknowledged, that's nothing about changing a person's mind yet.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It's still only marketing though, which despite what those involved will try and tell you is incredibly inefficient. You have to show to thousands to even get noticed by a handful of people, millions for hundreds. And that's just getting noticed/acknowledged, that's nothing about changing a person's mind yet.

I agree and my views on the EU have been the same since good old Jimmy Goldsmith was knocking about. All of the people I know that voted out did so because they have felt for years the EU had to much power over their everyday life. Do not know one person that even voted out for the whole NHS getting an extra 350m a week, something which I think if it happened would just go in consultant fees and wages and would not benefit patients one little bit.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

What impact, if any, does this have on Brexit?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42047532

Analysis by the BBC's Jenny Hill in Berlin

This is - for post-war Germany - an unprecedented political crisis that could spell the end of the Merkel era.

Weakened by a poor election result in September, the proposed coalition was Mrs Merkel's only shot at forming a new government.

Germany will now - in all probability - have to go back to the ballot box. But it's not at all certain that Mrs Merkel's party will want her to lead them into a fresh election.

The ensuing uncertainty has consequences beyond Germany. Mrs Merkel - who did not attend a summit of EU leaders in Sweden last week - will remain preoccupied with domestic affairs for some time yet. This was, she said last night, a time for deep reflection.

Mrs Merkel must now fight for political survival. The leader who for so many people has represented stability now is fast becoming a symbol of crisis in the heart of Europe.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don't think there's much between France and Germany ideologically on Europe at the moment, so Macron will just take over leadership.

The potential positive is that that axis will be relatively less stronger against our natural allies like Denmark and Poland.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Another 1000+ jobs lost to Brexit today.


London loses EU agencies to Paris and Amsterdam in Brexit relocation
Paris takes European Banking Authority and European Medicines Agency goes to Amsterdam as EU’s chief negotiator mocks Theresa May’s ‘Brexit means Brexit’ stance

Vince Cable: “This marks the beginning of the jobs Brexodus. Large private sector organisations are also considering moving to Europe and we can expect many to do so over next few years.”

The European Medicines Agency opened in 1995, having been secured for London by John Major’s government. Seen as one of the EU’s most important agencies, it carries out assessments and issues approvals for medicines across the union. The agency is also a boon for hoteliers, as 36,000 scientists and regulators visit each year.


Will there ever be any good Brexit news? If so how long will we have to wait for it?

 

[scaramanga]

Another 1000+ jobs lost to Brexit today.


London loses EU agencies to Paris and Amsterdam in Brexit relocation
Paris takes European Banking Authority and European Medicines Agency goes to Amsterdam as EU’s chief negotiator mocks Theresa May’s ‘Brexit means Brexit’ stance

Vince Cable: “This marks the beginning of the jobs Brexodus. Large private sector organisations are also considering moving to Europe and we can expect many to do so over next few years.”

The European Medicines Agency opened in 1995, having been secured for London by John Major’s government. Seen as one of the EU’s most important agencies, it carries out assessments and issues approvals for medicines across the union. The agency is also a boon for hoteliers, as 36,000 scientists and regulators visit each year.


Will there ever be any good Brexit news? If so how long will we have to wait for it?

In other news, agencies that are only relevant to the EU like being based in the EU.

 

[DTA]

I don't think there's much between France and Germany ideologically on Europe at the moment, so Macron will just take over leadership.

The potential positive is that that axis will be relatively less stronger against our natural allies like Denmark and Poland.

Have you seen what' going on in Poland at the moment?

 

[SpurMeUp]

In other news, agencies that are only relevant to the EU like being based in the EU.

Who will set the UKs medicines regulations in the future? Or the terms by which UK drugs companies can trade and operate? Most likely the EU. Not that irrelevant to the UK then.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Another 1000+ jobs lost to Brexit today.


London loses EU agencies to Paris and Amsterdam in Brexit relocation
Paris takes European Banking Authority and European Medicines Agency goes to Amsterdam as EU’s chief negotiator mocks Theresa May’s ‘Brexit means Brexit’ stance

Vince Cable: “This marks the beginning of the jobs Brexodus. Large private sector organisations are also considering moving to Europe and we can expect many to do so over next few years.”

The European Medicines Agency opened in 1995, having been secured for London by John Major’s government. Seen as one of the EU’s most important agencies, it carries out assessments and issues approvals for medicines across the union. The agency is also a boon for hoteliers, as 36,000 scientists and regulators visit each year.


Will there ever be any good Brexit news? If so how long will we have to wait for it?

That's the only two EU agencies in Britain though - so that's limited and entirely expected.

In the context of losing 1500 jobs at these two places, 8000 new civil service jobs have been created to help the country operate post-independence.