Politics, politics, politics

[glorygloryeze]

But staying is already defined.

As in staying = "become just a region in the new EU Superstate under an EU President"; hence the leave vote

 

[SpurMeUp]

Please note there no assumptions about you. Random examples. Interesting to hear about your own reasons though. We're all Spurs fans first and foremost.

Personally I would probably be better off in a Leave scenario, but I believe it would be a step backwards for the UK. But that is guess work because none of us know what Brexit will be - not even our government! It could range from turning the UK into a tax haven with ultra free trade (the Tory dream) to a situation very similar to today.

To sign off Leaving or Remaining in the EU because it's become an ingrained position would be a shame. Everyone should have the chance to see exactly what's on the table, what we the UK will get, and express our wishes. By definition no one has done that yet.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[DTA]

And what if everything proceeds as you suggest and then, two years later, there's another financial crisis, another migrant crisis, a military skirmish of some point, and suddenly polls are showing that 60% of the country want to leave again?

There has to come a point where it's settled. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems from your post that you think that point arrives as soon as the country agrees on your viewpoint. That's when we put it to bed.

What has the migrant crisis or the financial crisis got to do with the EU?

No I'm not saying that we should keep voting until it reaches a result that I am happy with. I'm saying
That once we know what we are voting for then we should actually hold a referendum, that make much more sense. Would you buy a house without know what your buying? Let's find out what we are voting for and then hold a vote.

And if that turns out to mean that leave still wins. Then fair enough we leave and ride the storm and see where it leads.

If leave wins a more informed vote which you seem to think they will, then even the most ardent remainders (like me) will get behind Brexit.

 

[DTA]

As in staying = "become just a region in the new EU Superstate under an EU President"; hence the leave vote

Well as it stands we decide if we want more integration or not. Just like we decided we didnt want to join the Euro or schezen (spelling) zone.
We also have influence on Eus policy direction with our vote holding veto just like every other state I believe.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Please note there no assumptions about you. Random examples. Interesting to hear about your own reasons though. We're all Spurs fans first and foremost.

Personally I would probably be better off in a Leave scenario, but I believe it would be a step backwards for the UK. But that is guess work because none of us know what Brexit will be - not even our government! It could range from turning the UK into a tax haven with ultra free trade (the Tory dream) to a situation very similar to today.

To sign off Leaving or Remaining in the EU because it's become an ingrained position would be a shame. Everyone should have the chance to see exactly what's on the table, what we the UK will get, and express our wishes. By definition no one has done that yet.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Fair comments. Personally, i'm happy to wait and see how things develop. The EU negotiators will make things as hard as possible (because deep down they would probably prefer the UK to stay in the EU) and so far they have lived up to that billing.
In a more 'morbid' sense, imo politics has never been more exciting (no matter what your political viewpoint).

 

[DTA]

Please note there no assumptions about you. Random examples. Interesting to hear about your own reasons though. We're all Spurs fans first and foremost.

Personally I would probably be better off in a Leave scenario, but I believe it would be a step backwards for the UK. But that is guess work because none of us know what Brexit will be - not even our government! It could range from turning the UK into a tax haven with ultra free trade (the Tory dream) to a situation very similar to today.

To sign off Leaving or Remaining in the EU because it's become an ingrained position would be a shame. Everyone should have the chance to see exactly what's on the table, what we the UK will get, and express our wishes. By definition no one has done that yet.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

If you don't mind tell me how you will be better off?

I keep asking this to leave voters but none have given me an answer that has any kind of substance.

So I thought I will ask you a remainder to see some upside.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well as it stands we decide if we want more integration or not. Just like we decided we didnt want to join the Euro or schezen (spelling) zone.
We also have influence on Eus policy direction with our vote holding veto just like every other state I believe.

The people decided in the referendum that overall e didn't want more integration, plus more besides. So all good for me thus far

 

[DeleHarry]

If you don't mind tell me how you will be better off?

I keep asking this to leave voters but none have given me an answer that has any kind of substance.

So I thought I will ask you a remainder to see some upside.

may i ask you as an ardent remainer how brexit will affect you personally? What is worrying you the most

 

[DTA]

The people decided in the referendum that overall e didn't want more integration, plus more besides. So all good for me thus far

I have spoken to quite a few leave voters and the reason they voted leave has much more to do with austerity the results of the financial crisis and the conservatives, then it has to do with any EU policy.

But that's obviously not the case for all leave voters.

Like I said let's have a proper informed vote, and if leave wins that... then ok I'm on board.

No promise of Unicorns or conversely Armageddon just properly accountable statements about what leaving would mean.

 

[DTA]

may i ask you as an ardent remainer how brexit will affect you personally? What is worrying you the most

Yes of course. Personallly I run a very small business in the creative industries 7 years of austerity have been tough, and i have had to scale back to almost being a one man band again. I'm worried about how the down turn in the economy caused by Britexit will affect the demand for my product. I have also invested small scale in property I am worried that as inflation rises it will almost certainly lead to an interest rates rise.

On societal level I fear that a Tory Brexit will be used as an excuse to privatise the NHS for example. I also worry that if we try to sign trade deals with America we will be at such a disadvantage that we will accept a degrading of Animal rights (for example), basically be bent over in order to get a deal.

Now could you return the favour and tell me how Brexit will benefit you personally please?

 

[Parklaner81]

What has the migrant crisis or the financial crisis got to do with the EU?

Are you serious? You're saying that you don't think that the migrant crisis had any bearing on the referendum outcome, or that any continuing or future such issues would influence public opinion or a future vote on the matter? Similarly for any of a variety of financial instability that might affect the EU?

 

[DTA]

Are you serious? You're saying that you don't think that the migrant crisis had any bearing on the referendum outcome, or that any continuing or future such issues would influence public opinion or a future vote on the matter? Similarly for any of a variety of financial instability that might affect the EU?

No, what I'm saying is that neither the financial or migrant crisis started in or was started by the EU. You could look at America and to a lesser extent the UK for the root causes of both those Crisis.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have spoken to quite a few leave voters and the reason they voted leave has much more to do with austerity the results of the financial crisis and the conservatives, then it has to do with any EU policy.

But that's obviously not the case for all leave voters.

Like I said let's have a proper informed vote, and if leave wins that... then ok I'm on board.

No promise of Unicorns or conversely Armageddon just properly accountable statements about what leaving would mean.

Personally, i thought the referendum WAS decently informed; yes there was a lot of guff from both sides, but that was like any other general election debate.
The difference is that this vote was a once-in-a-lifetime one that many, many people already had a view on anyway, though of course there was a certain chunk of the population that were thinking about the EU and the implications of leaving/staying for the first time.
I think this idea that the vote 'wasn't informed' is the type coming from those being labelled these days as "Remoaners" and frankly, those people keep showing why that term keeps being used.

I actually, think if we had another debate/vote, the leave vote would actually be higher due to the things the EU bigwigs have been saying in public since..

 

[Parklaner81]

No, what I'm saying is that neither the financial or migrant crisis started in or was started by the EU. You could look at America and to a lesser extent the UK for the root causes of both those Crisis.

The root cause of either is irrelevant to our discussion. The point is that such happenings, were they to occur, would very likely swing UK public opinion back toward leaving, if it had indeed gone the other way.

On the migrant crisis, Merkel and others undertook actions that had implications for the rest of the EU. It's an enormous issue and will continue to be so for some considerable time, including during any future UK-based debates on membership where it would, as I've already said, almost certainly exert a strong overall influence on opinion toward leaving. Just look at the recent German elections. Despite elements of the media doing their level-best over recent months to paint a picture of the EU 'having the wind back in its sails', this issue isn't going away anytime soon...

Regarding the example of a financial crisis, I didn't actually refer specifically to the 2008 global financial crisis. One financial crisis is rarely the same as the previous one, and in any case there are plenty of examples of EU-specific financial instability (sovereign debt issues, Greece, Italy...) from recent years to list. Any repetition is again only going to feed leave opinion, which was my original point.

 

[DTA]

Personally, i thought the referendum WAS decently informed; yes there was a lot of guff from both sides, but that was like any other general election debate.
The difference is that this vote was a once-in-a-lifetime one that many, many people already had a view on anyway, though of course there was a certain chunk of the population that were thinking about the EU and the implications of leaving/staying for the first time.
I think this idea that the vote 'wasn't informed' is the type coming from those being labelled these days as "Remoaners" and frankly, those people keep showing why that term keeps being used.

I actually, think if we had another debate/vote, the leave vote would actually be higher due to the things the EU bigwigs have been saying in public since..

If you believe that leave would actually get more of majority... fine let's have another referendum when we know what we are voting for and let's settle the matter

 

[glorygloryeze]

If you believe that leave would actually get more of majority... fine let's have another referendum when we know what we are voting for and let's settle the matter

As long as the parameters are that the UK are leaving and it's just a case of how, then i don't mind

 

[DTA]

As long as the parameters are that the UK are leaving and it's just a case of how, then i don't mind

Well if that's the only option, then I will take that. But why not give people the opportunity to change their mind? Especially if you think that the leave vote will be even more convincing... therefore shutting up us remoaners innit

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well if that's the only option, then I will take that. But why not give people the opportunity to change their mind? Especially if you think that the leave vote will be even more convincing... therefore shutting up us remoaners innit

Whatever; it's not me constantly bringing it up and claiming "the vote was dodgy" or "people didn't know what they were voting for" etc etc...
Don't worry, many are trying to scupper the process of the UK leaving the EU anyway, so the "remoaners" will likely get their wish in the end

 

[DTA]

Whatever; it's not me constantly bringing it up and claiming "the vote was dodgy" or "people didn't know what they were voting for" etc etc...
Don't worry, many are trying to scupper the process of the UK leaving the EU anyway, so the "remoaners" will likely get their wish in the end

Ok so we agree... another vote it is

 

[glorygloryeze]

Ok so we agree... another vote it is

The only thing we agree on is that those who voted to leave (the majority who voted) will be ignored