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Politics, politics, politics

I dont give a damn about smartphones. And heres the point - you are taking it to an extreme of EVERYTHING YOU BUY!!!

Who even cares? People have things they care about and things they dont, nobody is going to look at the minutie of every single purchase.

The things that bother them though? Absolutely. In the first instnace I imagine itll be food. Particularly the providence of meat/eggs or the use of pesticides around fresh goods. Clear labelling = informed choices = market rules would win out.`
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I dont give a damn about smartphones. And heres the point - you are taking it to an extreme of EVERYTHING YOU BUY!!!

Who even cares? People have things they care about and things they dont, nobody is going to look at the minutie of every single purchase.

The things that bother them though? Absolutely. In the first instnace I imagine itll be food. Particularly the providence of meat/eggs or the use of pesticides around fresh goods. Clear labelling = informed choices = market rules would win out.`
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People have things they care about, no slavery - cruelty to animals - pollution etc... nobody is going to look at the minutie of every single purchase and at the moment they don't have to.
 
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Some consumers want the cheapest eggs they can get, fully informed they buy from a source that farms to hell not treating waste etc. Diseases spread water table gets poisoned etc fudging things for everyone not only those informed consumers.

How does the market address this
 
And yet - if they did care about cruelty to animals they would pay attention to the details on purchases that relate.

They will not buy. Maybe they will campaign so others wont buy. The vendor will suffer and fold or change their ways.

None of which requires government intervention.
 
r-u-s-x said:
Some consumers want the cheapest eggs they can get, fully informed they buy from a source that farms to hell not treating waste etc. Diseases spread water table gets poisoned etc fudging things for everyone not only those informed consumers.

How does the market address this
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In a very democratic way, majority rules. If enough people want something different and abstain from that product then what do you suppose happens?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
That really depends on the money involved, doesnt it?

Equally, as I said, seems like something of a cop out to me to just pass it off to the authorities.
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It does depend on the money involved but it is fairly likely that a very small minority of consumers can keep a business going that then has a huge negative impact on the majority.

The markets (informed or not) do not deal with externalities very well.
 
This is well worth half an hour of your time. Really informative, with well informed interviewees discussing the EU's position. It was broadcast before the Florence speech but that hasn't changed much. It is available as a podcast too.

The Briefing Room - What does the EU want from Brexit?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b092r72j
 
Gutter Boy said:
I mentioned this a week or so ago in terms of training our own skilled workers for post-FoM, but here's the official announcement of funding for new medical schools to house 1000 extra medical degrees a year:
http://www.hefce.ac.uk/pubs/year/2017/201721/
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They should probably re-instate the bursaries for student nurses too. I'd have thought nursing will be impacted much more by the end of free movement, as their starting money is too low to be filled by non-EU migrants (they won't meet the salary requirements for the visa), whereas doctors earn more so can be recruited from outside the EU anyway.

Not heard anything from the Tories on reversing this cut.
 
the dza said:
They should probably re-instate the bursaries for student nurses too. I'd have thought nursing will be impacted much more by the end of free movement, as their starting money is too low to be filled by non-EU migrants (they won't meet the salary requirements for the visa), whereas doctors earn more so can be recruited from outside the EU anyway.

Not heard anything from the Tories on reversing this cut.
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Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to change the immigration rules so that nurses are in a required skill group?
 
scaramanga said:
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to change the immigration rules so that nurses are in a required skill group?
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I don't know, but in any case I think it's desirable to train our own nurses. They can find money to bung at the bigots in the DUP to cling on to power, they can apparently find it for their U-Turns on student fees and helping upper-middle class people buy £600k houses, so they should be able to find it to help student nurses.
 
the dza said:
I don't know, but in any case I think it's desirable to train our own nurses. They can find money to bung at the bigots in the DUP to cling on to power, they can apparently find it for their U-Turns on student fees and helping upper-middle class people buy £600k houses, so they should be able to find it to help student nurses.
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At the risk of sounding like an old fart barking at a bus stop, I don't think that currently people in this country have the work ethic to become nurses.

It'll take a generation of change before people will regain that need to work hard to earn their money.
 
scaramanga said:
At the risk of sounding like an old fart barking at a bus stop, I don't think that currently people in this country have the work ethic to become nurses.

It'll take a generation of change before people will regain that need to work hard to earn their money.
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They do, the bursaries was a good incentive and a big help to a lot of student nurses. It's a tough job and an important one, it should be that people get help to study for it.

I forget though, incentives are only for the wealthy (mustn't tax them too much, need to incentivise them to throw a few crumbs out) whereas ordinary people need to be punished to perform (cut benefits and any assistance, whether in work, out of work or studying).
 
the dza said:
They do, the bursaries was a good incentive and a big help to a lot of student nurses. It's a tough job and an important one, it should be that people get help to study for it.

I forget though, incentives are only for the wealthy (mustn't tax them too much, need to incentivise them to throw a few crumbs out) whereas ordinary people need to be punished to perform (cut benefits and any assistance, whether in work, out of work or studying).
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Nobody should be punished, they just shouldn't be paid more than someone else is willing and able to do their job for.
 
Also doctors take 5 years to train compared to 3 for nurses, so hence why this has been prioritised. They also presumably need more expensive facilities/overheads
 
scaramanga said:
Nobody should be punished, they just shouldn't be paid more than someone else is willing and able to do their job for.
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Who is talking about pay or pay rises? We're talking about some help for those studying to do an essential job where they don't get paid all that much anyway.
 
the dza said:
They do, the bursaries was a good incentive and a big help to a lot of student nurses. It's a tough job and an important one, it should be that people get help to study for it.

I forget though, incentives are only for the wealthy (mustn't tax them too much, need to incentivise them to throw a few crumbs out) whereas ordinary people need to be punished to perform (cut benefits and any assistance, whether in work, out of work or studying).
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Ha, ha the good 'ole Tory Double Think. They're not terribly rational, apart from their adherence to 'rational economics.'
 
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