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Politics, politics, politics

Gutter Boy said:
May fought off George Osborne and the rest of the cabinet for years on this. I really can't see her giving in on something she's be so determined on, even though her position is ridiculous. The Universities Minister Jo Johnson is a good guy, but he's still a bit too much of a political junior to carry this fight.
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Agreed.

Fine-grained immigration policy detail and targets won't really need to be articulated until the long-term fudge on freedom of movement is worked out. That's probably not until 2019, and so it happens after the Maybot has been upgraded to someone more plausibly human, who will be able to agree that the Home Office got the numbers wrong on May's watch and that HE is one of our few viable exports.
 
Foreign students are a £25b annual export.

They are also an intellectual elite that we should be looking to retain a fair number of after their studies. The problem with EU FoM dominating immigration (compared to a work permit system) is that we can't be selective and choose the best and brightest (rather than low skill, low wage workers).

A strange quirk is that Brexit could actually increase EU student numbers. At the moment universities heavily favour non-EU students (14%) over EU ones (6%), because they pay four times the fee. Now EU students won't be discriminated against in selection because they are 'poor value'
 
milo said:
Some of the best arguments against the government's approach to Brexit, that I have read recently, have come from moderate leavers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/901164171701751810

https://twitter.com/x/status/901041202346295296
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I think that Pete North may be the brother or uncle or granny of Richard North, a leaver who wrote a monograph on "Flexcit" (essentially EFTA as the springboard for careful uncoupling) and now blogs daily, at length, with an impressive command of detail on the minutiae of trade relationships across all industries, and in utter, utter fury at the fudgewittedness of the current government position, on eureferendum.com.

He's probably my favourite blogger at the moment and I'm a remainist ultra who would happily man barricades wih James Chapman.
 
milo said:
I think that you are onto something, I've put in a call to Sir Lynton to get you on the campaign. Johnson on Britain's Got Talent and you could get Jacob Ree-Mogg on Take Me Out. The only problem is that at 9pm is the premier of Burnham, a no-nonsense Manchester cop who won't play by the rules

C-k_0IMXkAETDCM.jpg
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I'm not so sure about the second season

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milo said:
Some of the best arguments against the government's approach to Brexit, that I have read recently, have come from moderate leavers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/901164171701751810

https://twitter.com/x/status/901041202346295296
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I'm not sure we'd have to give up anything if there was a new vote - in parliament or referendum. If the EU could cancel article 50 it would solve them problems too. Get Tony Blair to provide the diplomacy.

After all we have not had Brexit. We're still in the EU now.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
I'm not sure we'd have to give up anything if there was a new vote - in parliament or referendum. If the EU could cancel article 50 it would solve them problems too. Get Tony Blair to provide the diplomacy.

After all we have not had Brexit. We're still in the EU now.
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Nope. The threats have already happened. The rebate and opt-outs (euro, schengen, european army) are gone for good.

http://www.politico.eu/article/guy-...ment-to-uk-you-can-stay-in-eu-but-lose-perks/
 
Gutter Boy said:
Nope. The threats have already happened. The rebate and opt-outs (euro, schengen, european army) are gone for good.

http://www.politico.eu/article/guy-...ment-to-uk-you-can-stay-in-eu-but-lose-perks/
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Not sure that Verhofstadt is a completely reliable source on this. If the EU27 was minded to be tough about readmittance, we could still appeal to the ECJ about the revocability of A50, and the ruling would hinge on treaty case law rather than political will. Lots of sensible commentators and Eurocrats have suggested, contra Verhofstadt, that a reversion to the status quo would be welcomed, anyway.

So, still worth holding a second referendum, or simply encouraging our sovereign parliament to ignore the will of the Express and exercise sensible judgement.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I'm not sure we'd have to give up anything if there was a new vote - in parliament or referendum. If the EU could cancel article 50 it would solve them problems too. Get Tony Blair to provide the diplomacy.

After all we have not had Brexit. We're still in the EU now.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Do not really post in this thread.

I have a great sense of humour I feel and I am being serious here, are you suggesting we should get the war criminal whose time in office created the situation that provided the ground for Brexit, you want that guy to be the one to provide the diplomacy?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Do not really post in this thread.

I have a great sense of humour I feel and I am being serious here, are you suggesting we should get the war criminal whose time in office created the situation that provided the ground for Brexit, you want that guy to be the one to provide the diplomacy?
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I have a great sense of humour as well, so I get that you're doing a pitch-perfect Corbynista parody, and part of that is pretending that Britain's best PM in living memory is a war criminal. Still, Brexit is a serious problem, and perhaps we should discuss it seriously.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
I have a great sense of humour as well, so I get that you're doing a pitch-perfect Corbynista parody, and part of that is pretending that Britain's best PM in living memory is a war criminal. Still, Brexit is a serious problem, and perhaps we should discuss it seriously.
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Depends how good your memory is and how long you have lived.

Manufacturing decreased at a bigger rate under his time as PM then it did under Thatcher, he and Brown took a healthish and recovering economy in the 90's and with an expanded and bloated public sector set us up to record level of debts, though the tories started the PFI thing Labour ran with it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn

The thing that won Brexit was immigration debate and Blair was so keen to keep wages low to keep his friends and labour donors like lord sainsbury happy that he allowed it to go unchecked while simultaneously handing out benefits to Labours core scum northern lazy unemployed as a way of bribing their vote. If he had done better with it Brexit would never have happened.

I voted for Blair in 97, I voted tory as well in recent elections and UKIP in European elections, I will be voting for Corbyn next time despite some misgivings about him. He will ruin the economy, I suspect the is actually a racist element to the current Labour party, but they are better then the rest and the tories need to learn to govern for real people again, something they always seem to forget after a few years in office.

But to summise. Best PM in recent history, no fcuking way, he made mistakes as all of them will with the benefit of hindsight. But when it comes down to it, he followed a nutter into an illegal war for no good reason apart from oil. I am not some ultra leftie go to London and march and protest sort of a guy. But Blair is a murderer not a politician.
 
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We'll have to agree to differ, then.

Anyway, in other news, Labour's new Brexit strategy still has a whiff of cake-eating to it but is definitely a step in the right direction. Hope they have the sense to allow Chuka and Soubry's APG to be the sponsor of some killer amendents and spoiler votes, rather than Labour itself - that has to be the only way to get 20 Tories on board and vote down the MayDUP cabal.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
I have a great sense of humour as well, so I get that you're doing a pitch-perfect Corbynista parody, and part of that is pretending that Britain's best PM in living memory is a war criminal. Still, Brexit is a serious problem, and perhaps we should discuss it seriously.
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What do you call someone who takes his country into a war on a lie, of course he is a warmonger and bent over to do what the other warmonger told him to.
 
parklane1 said:
What do you call someone who takes his country into a war on a lie, of course he is a warmonger and bent over to do what the other warmonger told him to.
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It is only because of his chums that he has not faced war crimes charges in the Hauge. He should have done and why the tories are protecting him I will not understand, maybe because they think Labour would do the same for one of theirs in the future. But I am sure Corbyn would happily release all the classified documents and let it all come out in the wash.

The British public deserve that, it would also allow us to see how our elected leaders behave and give us a better idea for future elections. I also can not understand why the files on Doctor David Kelly are closed as well.

But yeah that aside lets get him to sort out the diplomacy.o_O
 
I agree, and you know what really made me ashamed about what he did ( and got away with) they actually made him a envoy for the Israel/Palestine problem; 8 years he held that job before he resigned. The guy has blood on his hands and he has got away scot free.

He has pulled the wool over so many eyes with his insincere smile and his words about " his GHod agreeing" flimflam.
 
Kezia Dugdale has stepped down as leader of the Scottish Labour Party.

Hopefully, she'll be replaced by someone more in tune with the direction of the party, which will imo lead to a stronger performance in Scotland -- at least in terms of a General Election.
 
parklane1 said:
He needs to take his wellys off and stop bothering the sheep. :rolleyes:
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Are you suggesting his is a Welshman with a chip on his shoulder(is there any other sort) who is worried that his country might not be so heavily subsided by Westminster.

Not sure how anyone can band around the figures that Brexit will cost seeing as the can be no trust in so many organisations to tell the truth. I would be more concerned about the normal economic cycle and us not getting debt down when we should have. Also America going into recesion will have a bigger impact on us then anything that happens with the EU.
 
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