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Politics, politics, politics

MPs should be representing what is best for the UK. Simple. Only one third voted for change. Furthermore, the referendum should be seen as a start, not an end. So much was not defined, or miss sold, it is crazy to try to implement the will of a third of the population who voted for something that was, and still is, to be defined.

1973 was the start. That was the mis-selling, where the population was conned. This is just putting an end to a silly little experiment. Putting us back on our path of 1000 years of sovereignty and 750 years of parliamentary governance.
 
1973 was the start. That was the mis-selling, where the population was conned. This is just putting an end to a silly little experiment. Putting us back on our path of 1000 years of sovereignty and 750 years of parliamentary governance.

In broad strokes, what should our 'sovereign' Britain and Brexit look like in your opinion? What trade and freedom of movement - ours as well as theirs - would you let go of to achieve this abstract outdated notion of sovereignty?
 
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In broad strokes, what should our 'sovereign' Britain and Brexit look like in your opinion? What trade and freedom of movement - ours as well as theirs - would you let go of to achieve this abstract outdated notion of sovereignty?

Everything. Democracy and sovereignty are the most important things in politics. Freedom is more important than prosperity (red pill over blue pill).

If you can't change course, remove those with influence over your life, you are living under tyranny. Even broadly benevolent tyranny is still tyranny.

My Brexit Britain would be socially and culturally open, but economically sustainable and incentivising local products and a decrease in consumption (and production). Energy would be 100% renewable (like Uruguay) and produced local to where it is used. Financial services would be heavily pruned and a proper industrial strategy would focus on producing only useful things, planned obsolescence banned and everything in biodegradable packaging. And direction could be properly changed by elections, not permanently undermined by the interests of big business (which the EU protects).
 
MPs should be representing what is best for the UK people vote for. Simple. Only one third voted for change to remain. Furthermore, the referendum should be seen as a start, not an end. So much was not defined, or miss sold, it is crazy to try to implement the will of a third of the population who voted for something that was, and still is, to be defined.
 
Decent article. Quick question: why do people talk about representing 52% of the population? Circa one third of the UK population voted to leave the EU.

MPs and government have a duty to represent everyone including the 2/3s who didn't vote to leave. Especially on something so undefined when the referendum votes were caste, and so critical to the UKs future.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Sorry mate but that made me howl with laughter,you have made it obvious that you wanted to remain but you and the others were in the minority. Now you want to add in the lazy bastards who could not be bothered to vote to you side. Wow that is the most stupid thing i have read in this thread.
 
Those that didn't vote obviously don't get added to Remain, but shouldn't they be represented? Brexit realities are so complex even the government don't fully grasp it, how do you expect people to have an informed vote on it?

Those that didn't vote should be respected. And MPs should represent what is best for Britain, not just the 1/3 who voted Leave.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

gonads. If those who could not be bothered to get of their arses and vote tough on them.
 
gonads. If those who could not be bothered to get of their arses and vote tough on them.

Can you tell exactly what they were voting for (or not voting for)? What Brexit will look like?

Why do you think people should be experts on international trade, economics etc etc to be able to make these decisions? Hell even the politicians barely understand the details of it all!
 
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Rule by the 5 EU Presidents and their priests, none of whom you can vote for?

Even more disenfranchised, lost among the 745 million?

A system that is designed to oppose democracy and permanently preserve neo-liberalism and big business from sustainability and local economies?

thats your opinion of the EU not my opinion of global political integration
 
Can you tell exactly what they were voting for? What Brexit will look like?

Why do you think people should be experts on international trade, economics etc etc to be able to make these decisions? Hell even the politicians barely understand the details of it all!

The vote wasn't for what Brexit would look like. The votes was for the possibility of anything and everything other than rule by the European Commission.

We can now have Liam Fox's 51nd state of America with complete deregulation, or Corbyn's socialist paradise with state ownership - neither of which are allowed by the EU. Or something much better than both those. It was a vote for the power to be able decide again.
 
What a mess the brexit vote is.
It was ill conceived, badly explained and is unsurprising poorly implemented.

Other than costs and jobs, I have little true interest.

It is though amusing me greatly to see once again the Conservative party showing their true colours.
 
MPs should be representing what is best for the UK. Simple. Only one third voted for change. Furthermore, the referendum should be seen as a start, not an end. So much was not defined, or miss sold, it is crazy to try to implement the will of a third of the population who voted for something that was, and still is, to be defined.
Your position only works if you assume it as a given that Brexit is not the best thing for the country as a whole. Reverse that position and you'll find yourself having to justify not going ahead.
 
The vote wasn't for what Brexit would look like. The votes was for the possibility of anything and everything other than rule by the European Commission.

We can now have Liam Fox's 51nd state of America with complete deregulation, or Corbyn's socialist paradise with state ownership - neither of which are allowed by the EU. Or something much better than both those. It was a vote for the power to be able decide again.

Yet Farrage and Banks the key men in UKIP were suggesting the UK would follow the Norway model post Brexit - a highly aligned setup where we would be following the Commission on a verity of dictates. Are you wrong, or were the Leave vote misleading people?
 
Your position only works if you assume it as a given that Brexit is not the best thing for the country as a whole. Reverse that position and you'll find yourself having to justify not going ahead.

Exactly. But people didn't vote to be worse off. People didn't vote for negatives did they? Okay they will accept some pain - especially if its abstract like a drop in GDP - but not a loss of services in the NHS because there aren't the staff or the revenue to pay for it.

When you pull it apart, Brexit offers so little (Sovereignty), and threatens so much (UK jobs and prosperity) it is extremely hard to make a rational case for it being in the UKs interests. The UK is losing jobs now - a number of banks taking small amounts of people to Amsterdam etc. The rates of investment into the UK has fallen, and the pound has fallen because every trader with a brain believes Brexit threatens the UKs prosperity. If Brexit is a success, it will be in 30 years time, and even then it is highly unlikely. We live in a global world, where free trade and cooperation are fundamental; and no Brexit is not opening up the UK. That is the most deluded notion of all, which ignores our current reality.
 
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Exactly. But people didn't vote to be worse off. People didn't vote for negatives did they? Okay they will accept some pain - especially if its abstract like a drop in GDP - but not a loss of services in the NHS because there aren't the staff or the revenue to pay for it.
Why won't there be the staff or the revenue to pay for it?

When you pull it apart, Brexit offers so little (Sovereignty),
And lots, and lots of trade. And lower input prices, and the ability to compete against the EU, and the ability to compete against the rest of the world, and the ability to regulate in a manner that suits our economy, etc, etc, etc.

and threatens so much (UK jobs and prosperity)
Exports of goods and services to the EU make up 14% of our GDP. Even a drastic cut in that trade would result in a drop in GDP of around 1-2%. That's incredibly unlikely - neither is it at all likely that none of that trade would be replaced by trade elsewhere, or by reduced import costs.

it is extremely hard to make a rational case for it being in the UKs interests.
I just did, it took me around 8 seconds. I'm more capable than most, but it's really not that diffictult if you actually want to .

The UK is losing jobs now - a number of banks taking small amounts of people to Amsterdam etc.
London was the world's financial centre before the UK joined the EU. EU membership makes some things a little easier and makes some costs a little smaller. If we can't brass plate those services into the EU (and the lawyers available to our financial institutions will be significantly better than those of the EU) then some jobs will be lost. Not nearly all of them, not even a majority of them, just enough so that those banks can claim to have a presence in the EU.

London will continue to be the centre for financial institutions because the people making the decisions in those branches still want to live and work in London. It has the right time zone, it has the right language, schools, property, supporting services, etc.

The rates of investment into the UK has fallen, and the pound has fallen because every trader with a brain believes Brexit threatens the UKs prosperity.
Is that really why? Because most experts have claimed it's because Sterling had been artificially high for a while and this was a readjustment prompted by initial uncertainty.

Remind me, why is the recent drop in Sterling a bad thing?

If Brexit is a success, it will be in 30 years time, and even then it is highly unlikely. We live in a global world, where free trade and cooperation are fundamental; and no Brexit is not opening up the UK. That is the most deluded notion of all, which ignores our current reality.
Why isn't it opening up the UK? Leaving a protectionist bloc is opening ourselves up to trade. We don't have to be part of a closed club to be open - in fact it's quite the opposite.
 
Yet Farrage and Banks the key men in UKIP were suggesting the UK would follow the Norway model post Brexit - a highly aligned setup where we would be following the Commission on a verity of dictates. Are you wrong, or were the Leave vote misleading people?

UKIP didn't have anything to do with the Leave campaign. They are a fringe party who were marginalised from the official campaign.

Their role was scaring the government into having the vote in the first place, but have never been about what the future might look like
 
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