Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

But if the EU really wanted to make sure the citizens of Europe who work in Britain were protected they could quite easily get started on a reciprocal arrangement. It showed a really poor attitude on their part. It has been on the ITV news the last 6 months, Juncker " we want to protect the rights of EU migrants in Britain and in Europe"

The British government have been prepared to negotiate on this for some time, I only ever watch ITV news and I can offer no direct quotes but the British government and several ministers have been prepared to negotiate with them straight away and take away the nervous uncertainty people must be feeling on this issue. It is the EU trying yet again to control the British electorate.

A reciprocal agreement would be pretty easy to agree, all residents in this country from EU countries right now have to be treated the same as they have always been, it should be pretty easy to prove how long you have been in this country through wage slips or college admission forms and the same goes for Brits working or studying in Prague or Barcelona etc.

It is no where near as completed as the EU bureaucrats are trying to make out, unless the is some truth to the rumour that the EU wants EU citizens living and working in Britain to have higher benefit increases in line with the EU standards, meaning we would have a situation where the British tax payer would have to pay foreign nationals living and working here higher benefits then the indigenous population, something that would be a vote loser for any party.

I am actually all for harmonisation of taxes and benefits across the continent. Completely unworkable in practise to anyone with a brain cell, but that does not effect me. I just would love to see the reaction from the French when they do not get their pensions till they are 67 or the British national debt when we all get to draw our pensions at 50.

Europe one size fits all, obviously it does not, and if Juncker and his gangster cronies in Brussels could have just understood that and made some concessions to the British they would probably have been able to keep shaking our money tree for a few more years.

I think that what you are suggesting is what the EU will look for in negotiations. My reading of the current government position is that they are offering less than this and want EU citizens in the UK to have the same rights as non-EU immigrants.

I haven't any comment from an EU representative saying that this should be complex. In fact I haven't seen any comment on this at all apart from them saying that it is one of their three priorities, alongside the Irish border and the exit fee.

 

[milo]

I've got to admit, she hasn't covered herself in glory so far in this campaign. I do have some sympathy though, at least on the social care issue - they tried to take a (for it's faults) responsible, realistic and honest approach to a big issue.....and they've been punished for it.

They've been punished for a bad, ill thought out policy. There is a good case to be made for taxing estates to pay for the care of the elderly but it should be done based on means and not what illness you have.

 

[milo]

How much are people reading into the supposed continual narrowing of the polls? Got to say that, on the surface, I find it somewhat incongruous that this apparently continues given the events of the past week, and the associated sharp focus on security (a traditional Tory vote winner).

It doesn't look like such a vote winner when a lot of the focus has been on cuts to the emergency services.

 

[the dza]

I've got to admit, she hasn't covered herself in glory so far in this campaign. I do have some sympathy though, at least on the social care issue - they tried to take a (for it's faults) responsible, realistic and honest approach to a big issue.....and they've been punished for it.

But if she avoids debates due to political strategy, then why try and push through some half-baked policy that p1sses off their core vote (old people)? When she's being strategic (avoiding debates) she looks like a coward and when she's being genuine (social care) it's bad strategy. And this is the woman who keeps asking "Well, who do you want across the negotiating table?" -- how about "not you!"

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think that what you are suggesting is what the EU will look for in negotiations. My reading of the current government position is that they are offering less than this and want EU citizens in the UK to have the same rights as non-EU immigrants.

I haven't any comment from an EU representative saying that this should be complex. In fact I haven't seen any comment on this at all apart from them saying that it is one of their three priorities, alongside the Irish border and the exit fee.

Donald Tusk is always bleating on in interviews that we are under estimating the task of negotiations. I have heard several ministers say that those EU nationals in Britain should carry on with the same rights they have. It is the ones that move here afterwards that they want to treat the same as non EU nationals and as we will not be part of the EU that is understandable.

For me the benefits that EU nationals get in this country because I personally would slash benefits across the board. I have spent a great deal of time in Latvia and I know that out there you can not get unemployment benefit till you have worked 5 years and then it is capped at a year at most. I would think a similar scheme in the UK would be great, as for health care. If someone is working and paying tax then they can use the health service.

 

[Parklaner81]

They've been punished for a bad, ill thought out policy. There is a good case to be made for taxing estates to pay for the care of the elderly but it should be done based on means and not what illness you have.

I agree that the policy itself was not without it's faults, and had something of a 'thrown together' air about it (like much else in this campaign on both sides). But I admire the general approach of trying to tackle the issue in an upfront & honest way, and I don't like to see such an approach punished - I'm talking in very general terms here, defending the approach and the intentions behind it, not the policy itself. I work (indirectly) with the social care industry and believe me, it's in a serious mess.

 

[DeleHarry]

the flip flopping and avoidance of debates* doesn't chime with strong and stable so I expect they are, she doesn't seem to stand for anything except keeping the job

*irrespective of the logic

I think she has no chance of securing a Brexit deal which will satisfy the leave camp. The Eu negotiators will stomp all over her and Britain will walk away with a relationship/agreement which is not far off what it currently is. That of course will satisfy and delight the remain camp.

She herself is a secret remainer at heart so probably wont be too upset with that anyway.

 

[milo]

I agree that the policy itself was not without it's faults, and had something of a 'thrown together' air about it (like much else in this campaign on both sides). But I admire the general approach of trying to tackle the issue in an upfront & honest way, and I don't like to see such an approach punished - I'm talking in very general terms here, defending the approach and the intentions behind it, not the policy itself. I work (indirectly) with the social care industry and believe me, it's in a serious mess.

Considering that they had the advantage of knowing when the election was going to be called, there is no excuse for half thought out policies.

I think that there is nothing to admire in a policy that punishes people for having dementia and they deserve all of the criticism that they get for it. The fact that May couldn't be honest about the U-turn and got bad tempered with journalists when questioned about it, made a bad situation worse.

 

[milo]

Donald Tusk is always bleating on in interviews that we are under estimating the task of negotiations. I have heard several ministers say that those EU nationals in Britain should carry on with the same rights they have. It is the ones that move here afterwards that they want to treat the same as non EU nationals and as we will not be part of the EU that is understandable.

For me the benefits that EU nationals get in this country because I personally would slash benefits across the board. I have spent a great deal of time in Latvia and I know that out there you can not get unemployment benefit till you have worked 5 years and then it is capped at a year at most. I would think a similar scheme in the UK would be great, as for health care. If someone is working and paying tax then they can use the health service.

I think that Tusk is right. The negotiations will be difficult.

The government has been clever with their wording when talking about the rights of EU citizens but the subtext is that they will have less rights after we leave than they do now.

 

[Parklaner81]

Considering that they had the advantage of knowing when the election was going to be called, there is no excuse for half thought out policies.

I think that there is nothing to admire in a policy that punishes people for having dementia and they deserve all of the criticism that they get for it. The fact that May couldn't be honest about the U-turn and got bad tempered with journalists when questioned about it, made a bad situation worse.

There was clearly little pre-planning in calling this election - it truly is a 'snap' election, so actually they had little, if any, advantage there. And as per my original post, what I tried to say is that I admire the general approach, not the policy itself, especially when the opposition are offering free-everything. So please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[milo]

There was clearly little pre-planning in calling this election - it truly is a 'snap' election, so actually they had little, if any, advantage there. And as per my original post, what I tried to say is that I admire the general approach, not the policy itself, especially when the opposition are offering free-everything. So please don't put words in my mouth.

I don't believe that for a second. If they hadn't been planning this election for months, they are even more inept than they appear.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Through spending cuts and growth, like all tax cuts.

Spending cuts, more austerity, now tell me again how it is that this mob represent the interests of all the British people again? So what are they cutting from the NHS, social services, education universities, aged care and all the rest? All so they can provide a financial free kick to their shonky, spiv mates in the corporate world.

 

[scaramanga]

Spending cuts, more austerity, now tell me again how it is that this mob represent the interests of all the British people again? So what are they cutting from the NHS, social services, education universities, aged care and all the rest? All so they can provide a financial free kick to their shonky, spiv mates in the corporate world.

.....who then employ people who earn wages instead of draining money from the state in benefits, requiring less public spending, allowing for more tax cuts.......

The opposite of the socialist ratchet essentially.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

There was clearly little pre-planning in calling this election - it truly is a 'snap' election, so actually they had little, if any, advantage there. And as per my original post, what I tried to say is that I admire the general approach, not the policy itself, especially when the opposition are offering free-everything. So please don't put words in my mouth.

We wont put words in your mouth, if don't put words into Labour Party's mouth. Since when have they said that their policies were for free? They are not free, there are going to be tax increases for the top 5% of earners. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

[scaramanga]

We wont put words in your mouth, if don't put words into Labour Party's mouth. Since when have they said that their policies were for free? They are not free, there are going to be tax increases for the top 5% of earners. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts.

There'll be a lot more than that - every independent analysis has agreed on that.

If Labour are to spend as much as they plan to spend they'll need to raise taxes for you lot too.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

.....who then employ people who earn wages instead of draining money from the state in benefits, requiring less public spending, allowing for more tax cuts.......

The opposite of the socialist ratchet essentially.

What guarantee is there then that the money will simply go off shore. Wouldn't it make more sense to put more money in my pocket? People at the bottom tend to spend most of their income, as they have less room for discretionary spending. This will will boost domestic demand. No chance of my tax cuts going to Bermuda.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I don't believe that for a second. If they hadn't been planning this election for months, they are even more inept than they appear.

This! oh the poor Tories, they called a snap election to catch Corbyn with his pants down and guess what? Nobody thought to do any hard policy development work. And why would they, when they could rely on good ole Rupie Murdoch to smear them back into power?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

.....who then employ people who earn wages instead of draining money from the state in benefits, requiring less public spending, allowing for more tax cuts.......

The opposite of the socialist ratchet essentially.

Oh that's the old, "what's good for General Motors is good for me" argument. I see, so only those at the bottom need pay tax, what a cunning Tory plan oh wait... wait... that is what is happening already...

 

[scaramanga]

What guarantee is there then that the money will simply go off shore. Wouldn't it make more sense to put more money in my pocket? People at the bottom tend to spend most of their income, as they have less room for discretionary spending. This will will boost domestic demand. No chance of my tax cuts going to Bermuda.

Some of it will go offshore. But, by being a lower tax country, we not only make that less appealing but also attract others into the country from whom we wouldn't have seen a penny before.

 

[scaramanga]

Oh that's the old, "what's good for General Motors is good for me" argument. I see, so only those at the bottom need pay tax, what a cunning Tory plan oh wait... wait... that is what is happening already...

Not at all. Everyone should pay less tax, not just the rich.