Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

Absolutely, both are terrible.

It read to me though, that the main Conservative criticism was that it was full of promises already made in the budget.

The main criticism of the Tories was that five more years of austerity was unlikely to be deliverable, that funding spending from growth was unrealistic when we are unlikely to see much growth and that the pledge to cut immigration is uncosted in the manifesto but likely to cost £6b a year.

 

[scaramanga]

The main criticism of the Tories was that five more years of austerity was unlikely to be deliverable, that funding spending from growth was unrealistic when we are unlikely to see much growth and that the pledge to cut immigration is uncosted in the manifesto but likely to cost £6b a year.

That seems fairly realistic.

As the government negotiating Brexit though, aren't they somewhat obliged to assume growth?

 

[milo]

As the government negotiating Brexit though, aren't they somewhat obliged to assume growth?

They are but every independent assessment that I have seen predicts lower growth than the Tories. Low growth and rising inflation will be a killer for their plans.

 

[scaramanga]

They are but every independent assessment that I have seen predicts lower growth than the Tories. Low growth and rising inflation will be a killer for their plans.

That why May has done the unforgivable and refused to rule out tax increases.

It would make far more sense if the taxation side of manifestos were locked in and governments had to then spend according to their means.

 

[milo]

That why May has done the unforgivable and refused to rule out tax increases.

It would make far more sense if the taxation side of manifestos were locked in and governments had to then spend according to their means.

Taxes will clearly rise after the election. I am sure that one of main reasons for it being called is because the U-turn on NI in the budget has left a hole in the finances.

That suggestion would work because it leaves little room to deal with events. I'd like to see the OBR audit manifestos.

 

[scaramanga]

Taxes will clearly rise after the election. I am sure that one of main reasons for it being called is because the U-turn on NI in the budget has left a hole in the finances.

That suggestion would work because it leaves little room to deal with events. I'd like to see the OBR audit manifestos.

Events can be dealt with by cutting spending.

 

[milo]

Events can be dealt with by cutting spending.

No politician would want their hands tied like that and I if it did happen, I doubt that the policy would survive its first crisis.

 

[Parklaner81]

How much are people reading into the supposed continual narrowing of the polls? Got to say that, on the surface, I find it somewhat incongruous that this apparently continues given the events of the past week, and the associated sharp focus on security (a traditional Tory vote winner).

 

[scaramanga]

No politician would want their hands tied like that and I if it did happen, I doubt that the policy would survive its first crisis.

Any conservative worth their salt would.

Unfortunately we don't currently have any of them.

 

[scaramanga]

How much are people reading into the supposed continual narrowing of the polls? Got to say that, on the surface, I find it somewhat incongruous that this apparently continues given the events of the past week, and the associated sharp focus on security (a traditional Tory vote winner).

Well, Diane Abbott was on TV today so that's a guaranteed poll jump for the Conservatives.

 

[milo]

Any conservative worth their salt would.

Unfortunately we don't currently have any of them.

If they were tanking in the polls because of the effects they wouldn't.

One of the strengths of the Conservative Party is that it has very few core beliefs and is mainly concerned with holding power. See the current manifesto containing several policies that Labour ran with two years ago and the same Tories who are championing them now were decrying them as Marxism then.

 

[scaramanga]

If they were tanking in the polls because of the effects they wouldn't.

One of the strengths of the Conservative Party is that it has very few core beliefs and is mainly concerned with holding power. See the current manifesto containing several policies that Labour ran with two years ago and the same Tories who are championing them now were decrying them as Marxism then.

I'd say the opposite.

The very reason they're tanking in the polls right now is that Communist manifesto. They're putting forward policies that no right-minded conservative would ever vote for.

The party had a very clear set of beliefs as put forward by Thatcher, which were updated to fit the modern world on issues such as equal rights. Short of being a complete fudgewit, there's no good reason why any Conservative politician should deviate from that.

Right now, that manifesto would walk the election with a huge majority - even in the hands of a wooden performer.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

He might have shot himself in the foot yesterday over the IRA again.

As with all his responses about them he was very cagey and evasive. The best he could offer is that their bombings were wrong only because civilians were hurt. That could and should do him a lot of damage.

The ageing and out of touch press gallery wet their panties over this sort of stuff. They ignore the fact that a good number of people voting in a fortnight will only have a very vague idea of what the IRA even were. Hey Scara how are the Tories going to pay for their cut of sixty five million pounds in corporate tax? How is that being funded?

 

[parklane1]

A caring and compassionate organization would attempt to take everyone into consideration. The EU loves the divorce analogy. In any divorce surely both parents should have the welfare of their kids as the number one priority. Why are the EU allowed to simply disown millions of its UK citizens because of the break up

Well that rules out the EU then they are scared to death that their shop is collapsing before their eyes, Britain will not be the only country to leave over the next decade or so as its a busted flush, and they will do all they can do to try and frighten others who may decide they have had enough of their flimflam and want out.

 

[parklane1]

That is not strictly true Milo, the government did offer to open negotiations straight away on a reciprocal arrangement about citizens rights but the EU said it could not be done till our leaving bill was settled(why a fee is due when you give two years notice is beyond me)

May and her government have not been great but they did make the offer to start negotiations on that straight away, it is the EU and Juncker trying to be difficult.

Funny enough that's how i remember it as well, but it does not fit the narrative of some.

 

[scaramanga]

The ageing and out of touch press gallery wet their panties over this sort of stuff. They ignore the fact that a good number of people voting in a fortnight will only have a very vague idea of what the IRA even were. Hey Scara how are the Tories going to pay for their cut of sixty five million pounds in corporate tax? How is that being funded?

Through spending cuts and growth, like all tax cuts.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

That's because the EU's position has always been that negotiations can only take place after the A50 notification.

It was an attempt by us to segment the negotiations to strengthen our position.

But if the EU really wanted to make sure the citizens of Europe who work in Britain were protected they could quite easily get started on a reciprocal arrangement. It showed a really poor attitude on their part. It has been on the ITV news the last 6 months, Juncker " we want to protect the rights of EU migrants in Britain and in Europe"

The British government have been prepared to negotiate on this for some time, I only ever watch ITV news and I can offer no direct quotes but the British government and several ministers have been prepared to negotiate with them straight away and take away the nervous uncertainty people must be feeling on this issue. It is the EU trying yet again to control the British electorate.

A reciprocal agreement would be pretty easy to agree, all residents in this country from EU countries right now have to be treated the same as they have always been, it should be pretty easy to prove how long you have been in this country through wage slips or college admission forms and the same goes for Brits working or studying in Prague or Barcelona etc.

It is no where near as completed as the EU bureaucrats are trying to make out, unless the is some truth to the rumour that the EU wants EU citizens living and working in Britain to have higher benefit increases in line with the EU standards, meaning we would have a situation where the British tax payer would have to pay foreign nationals living and working here higher benefits then the indigenous population, something that would be a vote loser for any party.

I am actually all for harmonisation of taxes and benefits across the continent. Completely unworkable in practise to anyone with a brain cell, but that does not effect me. I just would love to see the reaction from the French when they do not get their pensions till they are 67 or the British national debt when we all get to draw our pensions at 50.

Europe one size fits all, obviously it does not, and if Juncker and his gangster cronies in Brussels could have just understood that and made some concessions to the British they would probably have been able to keep shaking our money tree for a few more years.

 

[spitshine]

How much are people reading into the supposed continual narrowing of the polls? Got to say that, on the surface, I find it somewhat incongruous that this apparently continues given the events of the past week, and the associated sharp focus on security (a traditional Tory vote winner).

Maybe some people are just fed up with the "strong and stable" line May keeps repeating. She needs to realise that Brexit is not the only issue.

 

[Baleforce]

the flip flopping and avoidance of debates* doesn't chime with strong and stable so I expect they are, she doesn't seem to stand for anything except keeping the job

*irrespective of the logic

 

[Parklaner81]

Maybe some people are just fed up with the "strong and stable" line May keeps repeating. She needs to realise that Brexit is not the only issue.

I've got to admit, she hasn't covered herself in glory so far in this campaign. I do have some sympathy though, at least on the social care issue - they tried to take a (for it's faults) responsible, realistic and honest approach to a big issue.....and they've been punished for it.