monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Sounds like an opportunity to expand our weapons and "democracy" export business.
Move aside USA, you've had 70 odd years of empire by proxy, time to let the grown ups do it again.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Sounds like an opportunity to expand our weapons and "democracy" export business.
Move aside USA, you've had 70 odd years of empire by proxy, time to let the grown ups do it again.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
The biggest problem with humanity is its lack of humanity
Empathy is just weakness by another name.
It's important to understand what people want and why they want it as that's how you control them. Past that it's just firing around neurons that could be better used.
Empathy can perhaps leave someone vulnerable to be taken advantage of. However, I think it's also self-interest and survival. If you help others when they need it, you can also get help when you need it.
That's starting to sound more like an empathetic equivalent of Pascal's Wager than it does true empathy.
Empathy for the sake of self interest is not really empathy, it probably fits closer to my use of the tool.
When it's calculated, yeah. But I'm saying that in general, it's in most of us to empathise because the need for empathy and co-operation is a survival trait of our species. I think empathy is automatic for most people, they aren't thinking "I'll get something out of this later" but imo, that's why we are able to empathise and why it's not necessarily a weakness.
Annnnnnnnd now back to the politics:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tter-contained-blackmail-threat-politics-live
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
- Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
________________________________________
That could be a big development, what do you lot think?
I think that only a negotiating team confident of having that (or an equivalent/better) locked in would suggest there could be a vote on it.
Scratch that:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b007e8557f11a7#block-58dd1c0ee4b007e8557f11a7
Brexit department corrects David Davis and says MPs will not get vote on leaving EEA
In the Commons earlier David Davis, the Brexit secretary, said MPs would probably get a vote on leaving the EEA. (See 1.46pm.) That opened up the theoretical possibility of the House of Commons voting to keep Britain in the EEA (the “Norway option”) while leaving the EU.
That has now been ruled out. The Brexit department has issued a statement effectively correcting its secretary of state and saying a vote is now not expecting.
A spokesperson for the department said:
We will not be a member of the single market or the EEA. Once we leave the EU, the EEA agreement will no longer be relevant for the UK. It will have no practical effect.
We therefore do not envisage a vote. We are considering what steps, if any, might need to be taken to formally terminate the EEA agreement as a matter of international law.
That is what the secretary of state was referring to in the House and we will of course keep parliament fully updated.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b007e8557f11a7#block-58dd1c0ee4b007e8557f11a7
Brexit department corrects David Davis and says MPs will not get vote on leaving EEA
In the Commons earlier David Davis, the Brexit secretary, said MPs would probably get a vote on leaving the EEA. (See 1.46pm.) That opened up the theoretical possibility of the House of Commons voting to keep Britain in the EEA (the “Norway option”) while leaving the EU.
That has now been ruled out. The Brexit department has issued a statement effectively correcting its secretary of state and saying a vote is now not expecting.
A spokesperson for the department said:
We will not be a member of the single market or the EEA. Once we leave the EU, the EEA agreement will no longer be relevant for the UK. It will have no practical effect.
We therefore do not envisage a vote. We are considering what steps, if any, might need to be taken to formally terminate the EEA agreement as a matter of international law.
That is what the secretary of state was referring to in the House and we will of course keep parliament fully updated.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Good to know the people running this are unified and know what they are doing [emoji23]
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Just to have this at the outset regarding the negotiations.
What is considered a win regarding BREXIT terms - what are we hoping to achieve and what do you think we will achieve.
from the outset of the referendum I have been told it would be possible to have full restrictions on immigration and full access to the common market including for services.
What is considered a win regarding BREXIT terms - what are we hoping to achieve and what do you think we will achieve.
from the outset of the referendum I have been told it would be possible to have full restrictions on immigration and full access to the common market including for services.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Can you show me where you were told this? Serious question, not trolling.
Alot of the referendum debate has kind of become blurred since the vote, so just trying to piece together how you got to that conclusion.
From a forward look perspective, i think what you are expecting is almost impossible - unless there is a EU wide change of freedom of movement (which i actually think there will be - but it will come post Brexit as most member states will looking to use Brexit as a test case to push change and also to leverage individual agenda's. Add to that elections in some of the big players during Brexit).
Not quite what I remembered but this was a preffered position in June:
Boris Johnsons "have cake and eat it" - not the best source but does have direct quotes:
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201611291047968394-uk-cake-brexit-bungle/
"He basically said: 'I don't want free movement of people but I want the single market'," Calenda (Italian Foreign minister) told Bloomberg.
"I said: 'No way.' He said: 'You'll sell less prosecco.' I said: 'OK, you'll sell less fish and chips, but I'll sell less prosecco to one country and you'll sell less to 27 countries.' Putting things on this level is a bit insulting."
And Pre election (and shortly post) every other person was saying we would keep the single market with increased controls
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-boris-idUSKCN0ZC13W
Boris Johnsons "have cake and eat it" - not the best source but does have direct quotes:
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201611291047968394-uk-cake-brexit-bungle/
"He basically said: 'I don't want free movement of people but I want the single market'," Calenda (Italian Foreign minister) told Bloomberg.
"I said: 'No way.' He said: 'You'll sell less prosecco.' I said: 'OK, you'll sell less fish and chips, but I'll sell less prosecco to one country and you'll sell less to 27 countries.' Putting things on this level is a bit insulting."
And Pre election (and shortly post) every other person was saying we would keep the single market with increased controls
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-boris-idUSKCN0ZC13W
That would still be my preferred option. I think free movement of (non-religious) people is a good thing and that the EU will happily allow us to trade freely if we do so. Unfortunately the discussion has been driven towards the xenophobic angle and away from the barrier-free trade angle where I think it should be.
Now that we are insisting on a lack of free movement the trade will probably cost us - I don't know how much, but our ability to stop Europeans getting blown up by muslamic infidel mentals should help alleviate some of that cost.
Ok what would be a "win" then - going into the talks what do we all want out of it and consider we have done well?
At the moment it appears we (gov) are saying they want a thing and the EU are staying steadfast. i.e. lets talk before Article 50 - lets do parallel talks trade & divorce etc.
For me from the EU it would be free movement of services - working in the city this is the one that will likely hit me the hardest.
From the UK side I would want them forced to accept EU laws on pollution and employment benefits.
At the moment it appears we (gov) are saying they want a thing and the EU are staying steadfast. i.e. lets talk before Article 50 - lets do parallel talks trade & divorce etc.
For me from the EU it would be free movement of services - working in the city this is the one that will likely hit me the hardest.
From the UK side I would want them forced to accept EU laws on pollution and employment benefits.
milo
Jack L. Jones
A short but interesting read on regulation post Brexit
https://medium.com/@SamuelMarcLowe/the-sovereignty-delusion-54e9c3ff210f
https://medium.com/@SamuelMarcLowe/the-sovereignty-delusion-54e9c3ff210f
I think from the EU side they have to make it less favourable being outside the EU rather than being a member, else some of the other 27 countries will start questioning the benefits of the EU.
I think both Houses will get a vote on the final Brexit deal but perhaps the electorate should be given a chance to vote on the final deal too....
I think both Houses will get a vote on the final Brexit deal but perhaps the electorate should be given a chance to vote on the final deal too....
milo
Jack L. Jones
Roughly how would you see that comparing to what we pay now? Presumably, you would see regulatory oversight continuing.
milo
Jack L. Jones
This is quite a good summary of the EU's Brexit guidelines
https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/here-are-the-11-key-points-in-the-eus-brexit-guidelines
https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/here-are-the-11-key-points-in-the-eus-brexit-guidelines