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Politics, politics, politics

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

AuroRaman said:
In the past there has always been a political figure who at least gave me some sparks of inspiration, but right now I look at party leaders and prominent MP's and just sigh.
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Now that you're spot on with. Love her or hate her, at least Thatcher knew what she believed in. The leaders of the major parties don't lead, they just follow whatever they think will get them votes.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

milo said:
I think that anyone who agrees with all of a party's policies is a bit weird.

Voting for me is weighing up a combination of who I most agree with and who has the best chance of beating someone I don't.

Unfortunately, if you do not vote, whoever wins takes your abstention as support of their mandate.
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I agree with the principle of that but no I shall not vote, maybe too long in the tooth but I have done all that followed everyone I thought would actually change things.

That is why I like the idea of referendums, think we should have ones on all major issues, EU Privatising the NHS Nationalising the railways etc.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

NWND said:
Dismissing the rising UKIP support as fascist right wingers is a sneary and ignorant thing to say.

I don't want my country to be part of the European Union and I think we've allowed too much immigration into the country that doesn't benefit us and has actually directly led to crime and civil unrest and socio-economic problems.

I'm not a fascist or particularly right-wing and neither are most that vote UKIP who managed more votes than the Lib Dems at the last nationally held elections.

The fact that in British politics you have to be pigeon holed as left or right wing is another symptom of the problem.

I might be classed as right wing in terms of EU and immigration, but then my views on public services and social care are probably classed as very left wing.
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=D>=D>=D>
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

NWND said:
I don't agree with many of the Green's views. I think the Green's general manifesto would drastically impact my life for the negative, making it almost impossible to run a car on my salary and get to work. No way in million years I'd vote for them.
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Anyone thinking of voting green want to look at Brighton and what Jason Kitkat (real name) has done there, utter idiot.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

milo said:
I think that anyone who agrees with all of a party's policies is a bit weird.

Voting for me is weighing up a combination of who I most agree with and who has the best chance of beating someone I don't.

Unfortunately, if you do not vote, whoever wins takes your abstention as support of their mandate.
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This sentiment is quite important to me. My local Tory MP has rebelled on something like 5 out of 1000 commons votes, which tells me she's simply a mouthpiece for the government. Hell, 3 of her rebellions were over sitting times in the House of Commons on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I frankly find that quite pathetic. I can't trust an MP who is simply a mouthpiece for their party, there's no way someone can so overwhelmingly agree with everything their leaders say.

I want my MP to have some backbone and vote how they feel, not follow the government whip at every opportunity to get brownie points in hopes of a promotion (which my MP now has and is in a prominent ministerial role)
 
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Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Richie said:
This sentiment is quite important to me. My local Tory MP has rebelled on something like 5 out of 900 commons votes, which tells me she's simply a mouthpiece for the government. Hell, 3 of her rebellions were over sitting times in the House of Commons on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I frankly find that quite pathetic. I can't trust an MP who is simply a mouthpiece for their party, there's no way someone can so overwhelmingly agree with everything their leaders say.

I want my MP to have some backbone and vote how they feel, not follow the government whip at every opportunity to get brownie points in hopes of a promotion (which my MP now has and is in a prominent ministerial role)
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I had a pop at our local one when we lived in Chichester for Cameron back tracking on the Lisbon treaty, had the balls to tell me I was wrong. I really give him a piece of my mind, he looked quite scared h
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

japenesegardenlover said:
That is why I like the idea of referendums, think we should have ones on all major issues, EU Privatising the NHS Nationalising the railways etc.
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I think that the problem with this is that referendums are expensive and there would be no consistency in policy.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

milo said:
I think that the problem with this is that referendums are expensive and there would be no consistency in policy.
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well it would be a damn site/sight cheaper then the Iraq war which I doubt we would have gone to if it had gone to a referendum

I would suggest a referendum day every year when you could have 4 or 5 questions for the public to be asked. I would like to think most people could do a multiple questionnaire.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

japenesegardenlover said:
well it would be a damn site/sight cheaper then the Iraq war which I doubt we would have gone to if it had gone to a referendum

I would suggest a referendum day every year when you could have 4 or 5 questions for the public to be asked. I would like to think most people could do a multiple questionnaire.
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I think that would be bad for the economy, the markets and investors get spooked by uncertainty and the risk of the public choosing contradictory policies would be huge. The current system has its flaws but I think that it is the lessor of evils.

I think that a more pressing issue is our electoral system. It was designed for a two party system and I think that the under representation of the minor parties in parliament is one of the reasons that people feel disengaged from politics. I also think that for the foreseeable future, it is going to produce weak governments too.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I like Caroline Lucas individually. Says some left wing liberal stuff that suits my biases.

But the stuff about the 131k policy is odd. I imagine big firms would just get around it with bonuses and share schemes. Wouldn't be a show stopper.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

LutonSpurs said:
I like Caroline Lucas individually. Says some left wing liberal stuff that suits my biases.

But the stuff about the 131k policy is odd. I imagine big firms would just get around it with bonuses and share schemes. Wouldn't be a show stopper.
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she is known round this way as caroline 3 houses lucas
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

AuroRaman said:
Can you give an 'in a nutshell' synopsis of what he's done?
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Did not cut budgets, sacked people who disagreed with him, then in his last year said we need to cut services to save money which he knew all along because of the cuts from central government, then went ahead with a 36m council approved loan for a stupid looking steel thing on the seafront which will be just like the one in Portsmouth that will need to be bailed out by the state, except the state is paying for this thing in the first place.

Allowed EDL type marches to go ahead on bank holiday weekend which is a busy one for a seaside town yet the traders took no money because the town was all shut up, built cycle lanes at inflated costs that went no where, reduced speed limit to 20 miles an hour, screwed up school admission places, took time off to get involved in other towns issues "fracking"

The greens of Brighton have also come out against bypasses on the A27 in Chichester despite the fact that has nothing to do with Brighton.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

japenesegardenlover said:
Did not cut budgets, sacked people who disagreed with him, then in his last year said we need to cut services to save money which he knew all along because of the cuts from central government, then went ahead with a 36m council approved loan for a stupid looking steel thing on the seafront which will be just like the one in Portsmouth that will need to be bailed out by the state, except the state is paying for this thing in the first place.

Allowed EDL type marches to go ahead on bank holiday weekend which is a busy one for a seaside town yet the traders took no money because the town was all shut up, built cycle lanes at inflated costs that went no where, reduced speed limit to 20 miles an hour, screwed up school admission places, took time off to get involved in other towns issues "fracking"

The greens of Brighton have also come out against bypasses on the A27 in Chichester despite the fact that has nothing to do with Brighton.
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Thanks mate. Wow, quite the car crash!
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

AuroRaman said:
A simple Google search is your friend bro. UKIP Fails, UKIP homophobic/gay flooding, UKIP racist, UKIP funny, UKIP sexism. ****, even just typing UKIP will bring up their ridiculousness. It's not one-offs, it's relentless ignorant brain-fails and disgustingly backward views. Of course there have been plenty of examples of MP's across all parties not engaging their brains when speaking in public, or presenting personal views that are not necessarily in line with their party, but not with such regularity as the Kippers. It's actually hilarious.
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I think most of the views you consider backwards and disgusting are what a lot of people feel but until recently have been too afraid to say them in public.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

NWND said:
I think most of the views you consider backwards and disgusting are what a lot of people feel but until recently have been too afraid to say them in public.
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Yeah, I don't personally know anyone that thinks pregnant working women should be fired, flooding is caused by gays, traffic on a motorway is caused by our 'open-door' immigration policy, guns should be legalised etc etc. but then I live in London and we generally point and laugh at the Kippers.

Farage says its a few rotten apples, but as I mentioned earlier, it is with such regularity that they cause controversy with pathetic attitudes that the whole ****ing apple tree is rotting from its roots.

I'm sure people do agree with their more colourful views, you only have to look at their FB page to read the bile their supporters write. And the party itself has been cute in highlighting buzzwords like immigration and EU constantly to gain support. But as Monkey mentioned earlier, they have no substance beyond that, they're actually a bit of a joke.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

AuroRaman said:
Yeah, I don't personally know anyone that thinks pregnant working women should be fired, flooding is caused by gays, traffic on a motorway is caused by our 'open-door' immigration policy, guns should be legalised etc etc. but then I live in London and we generally point and laugh at the Kippers.

Farage says its a few rotten apples, but as I mentioned earlier, it is with such regularity that they cause controversy with pathetic attitudes that the whole ****ing apple tree is rotting from its roots.

I'm sure people do agree with their more colourful views, you only have to look at their FB page to read the bile their supporters write. And the party itself has been cute in highlighting buzzwords like immigration and EU constantly to gain support. But as Monkey mentioned earlier, they have no substance beyond that, they're actually a bit of a joke.
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As i gave as one of my reasons for not voting is the anti Jewish element, I have always had a soft spot for the Jews no real reason as I was raised a Catholic though now not be a complete idiot I do not believe in any religion.

If you look at regular opinion polls, Immigrations scores highly as a concern due I guess to employment housing education and strains on the health system it seems a valid concern and a lot share this concern if opinion polls are to be believed. I find that people from ethnic backgrouds are sometimes fearful of even the topic being discussed so automatic go to the racism argument.

The EU is also something that scores highly on peoples list of concerns and seeing what has happened in the euro zone in the last 10 years it is not surprising. Of course the is an argument it is better to stay in it and try and reform it, if you believe those making those claims.

I have never seen myself as extreme, immigration concerns me and what it did to me and my work mates in the 2004 period onward, but I got out so I was lucky not to see my wages drop over night. When it happens to civil servants they go on strike, when trades people moaned in 2004 we were racist, that is when I started looking for a new party.

But on so many issues, gay marriage(all for it as i am adoption) I see a case for legalising drugs, I do not mind controlled immigration like they have in America etc. Due in part to the wife I am advocate of more being down to educate prisoners. On a lot of issue I am very liberal. Which is why the minority of nutters in UKIP distup me and stop me from wanting to vote for them despite their excellent work on the EU, Grammar schools and immigration controls.

Their views on gay marriage, wind turbines and the extreme lengths they would go to rebuilding the armed forces concern me as do some of their members.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Richie said:
Now that you're spot on with. Love her or hate her, at least Thatcher knew what she believed in. The leaders of the major parties don't lead, they just follow whatever they think will get them votes.
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A bit simplistic all that. Firstly Thatcher had a huge majority, which gave her the electoral fat to carry out her 'leadership' agenda. Secondly, the Labour party was very, very weak. They were split three ways and were no great threat until very late on in her term. Yeah I wish the Tories had a Thatcher like leader too...it would help to get the left wing vote out quick smart.
 
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