Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Gutter Boy]

Dunno what the big deal about this task force is.

The last Tory government were committed to child poverty too.

Its a big misnomer too - child poverty is mainly caused by lack of regulation in private sector rent. Nothing at all to do with the benefit cap

 

[Gutter Boy]

The x million children in poverty thing is also a bit pointless, as poverty is a relative rather than an absolutely measure - usually the botton 15%. So there will always been x million children in poverty.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

The epiphany you need to make is this: governing a nation or multiple nations isn’t easy. And the EU isn’t some force for bad. It actually does a better job of setting standards and checks, within its remit, than our nation state does generally. Just ask farmers and fisherman who were also duped. Both are far worse off now. The sunny uplands nowhere to be seen.

Its the devil and its here to do the devils business.

 

[Mikey10]

I am struggling to believe the news today; our pandemic response wasn’t actually “world-beating”, and the Conservative government were therefore gaslighting the country for two years?

I, for one, am absolutely astounded. They always seemed such an honest and trustworthy bunch.

 

[Rorschach]

The x million children in poverty thing is also a bit pointless, as poverty is a relative rather than an absolutely measure - usually the botton 15%. So there will always been x million children in poverty.

So are you saying that the number of children in poverty is increasing because the median wage is increasing thus pulling them into that poverty bracket? More children whose household income is below the 60% median line sounds like more children in poverty to me. The cost of living is increasing so unless their wages are matching that increase then they are falling behind.

 

[Bullet]

So are you saying that the number of children in poverty is increasing because the median wage is increasing thus pulling them into that poverty bracket? More children whose household income is below the 60% median line sounds like more children in poverty to me. The cost of living is increasing so unless their wages are matching that increase then they are falling behind.

I think he's saying the bottom 15% of all children are in poverty, thus as populations increase, there will always be more children in the bottom 15%. But perhaps I misconstrue.

 

[Rorschach]

I think he's saying the bottom 15% of all children are in poverty, thus as populations increase, there will always be more children in the bottom 15%. But perhaps I misconstrue.

The poverty line is calculated from the median household income, not the bottom 15%. So it would be obvious to say that the number of kids classed as the 15% poorest kids in the country will change in direct relation to the population size. Of course it will, that is maths. But whether this group matches exactly those below the poverty line would not be correct. Anyway the take away is that there are more kids in poverty so that is bad, I assume.

 

[thfcsteff]

This brilliant, devastating book is well worth your time...

https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/broke

 

[Craig_J]

This brilliant, devastating book is well worth your time...

https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/broke

Thank you for sharing. I will give this a read in the next few weeks

 

[Robspur12]

Nobody is complaining about monsters from Mars, well not yet anyway.
Dismissing a growing number of people that their fears are not valid, while insinuating that they are racists, misogynistic, homophobic etc, is only going to make it worse.
They are not being listened to, their fears are not being allayed, if anything they being stoked because they are not being listened to.

But they are being listened to. The Tories did nothing but talk about immigrants, small boats and they gave the country an anti immigration driven brexit. So I'm not sure why the narrative of "not listening to disaffected people about immigration" persists.

The problem is that it is not that easy to "control" immigration without undermining economic growth and/or becoming a pariah state like Russia or Belarus. We have such massive skills gaps in the West, not to mention an ageing population that we need young, skilled foreign workers and we also have to respect our international obligations in relation to refugees. The world is a changing and fluid place. How you change that I'm not sure. But it's not because the politicians aren't listening.

 

[Robspur12]

I think everyone is in favour of high-skilled immigration - doctors, researchers, (and footballers?!) etc. But that's why there's a pretty simple visa route for them. The question was more about general freedom of movement, which usually means unskilled workers.

The skilled visa route is incredibly expensive.

 

[Baleforce]

But they are being listened to. The Tories did nothing but talk about immigrants, small boats and they gave the country an anti immigration driven brexit. So I'm not sure why the narrative of "not listening to disaffected people about immigration" persists.

The problem is that it is not that easy to "control" immigration without undermining economic growth and/or becoming a pariah state like Russia or Belarus. We have such massive skills gaps in the West that we need young, skilled foreign workers and we also have to respect our international obligations in relation to refugees. The world is a changing and fluid place. How you change that I'm not sure. But it's not because the politicians aren't listening.

they didn't get what they want though, they wanted Brexit to mean there would only be white people in England

 

[Robspur12]

I am struggling to believe the news today; our pandemic response wasn’t actually “world-beating”, and the Conservative government were therefore gaslighting the country for two years?

I, for one, am absolutely astounded. They always seemed such an honest and trustworthy bunch.

Not just the Conservatives though, SNP too. I could have forgiven some errors and some of the lack of preparedness (after all that was as much down to previous governments as to the ones who were in power at the time of the pandemic), if the governments had shown some humility and looked to genuinely work solely in the nation's interests; maybe even bringing about a cross party consensus to deal with the crisis. What I can't forgive is the sheer bloody hubris, throwing money at mates to cover their inadequacies and then partying away while people died alone.

 

[glasgowspur]

But they are being listened to. The Tories did nothing but talk about immigrants, small boats and they gave the country an anti immigration driven brexit. So I'm not sure why the narrative of "not listening to disaffected people about immigration" persists.

The problem is that it is not that easy to "control" immigration without undermining economic growth and/or becoming a pariah state like Russia or Belarus. We have such massive skills gaps in the West, not to mention an ageing population that we need young, skilled foreign workers and we also have to respect our international obligations in relation to refugees. The world is a changing and fluid place. How you change that I'm not sure. But it's not because the politicians aren't listening.

One party, even if it's party in power, going on about a subject is not the same as listening.

 

[glasgowspur]

Not just the Conservatives though, SNP too. I could have forgiven some errors and some of the lack of preparedness (after all that was as much down to previous governments as to the ones who were in power at the time of the pandemic), if the governments had shown some humility and looked to genuinely work solely in the nation's interests; maybe even bringing about a cross party consensus to deal with the crisis. What I can't forgive is the sheer bloody hubris, throwing money at mates to cover their inadequacies and then partying away while people died alone.

No one dislikes the snp as much as me, but I have to say I find it difficult to blame any government for not being prepared for covid.
As I understand it the "experts" were all predicting a different kind of pandemic and that is what governments were prepared for.
We would be complaining about it if they hadn't prepared for what was predicted and it happened.
How they all handled it after that is another matter and not one you want to get me started on.

 

[Craig_J]

Its the devil and its here to do the devils business.

Least the devil has business.

We don't even have any trade partners because the sad matter of fact is that no one cares about us. We are that irrelevant no one an be arsed with the paperwork involved in establishing trade.

Our main trade partners are the EU - but we're trading from the outside with no tangible benefit at all.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Least the devil has business.

We don't even have any trade partners because the sad matter of fact is that no one cares about us. We are that irrelevant no one an be arsed with the paperwork involved in establishing trade.

Our main trade partners are the EU - but we're trading from the outside with no tangible benefit at all.

Are we not the 5th biggest exporter in the world. Though in my view getting away from gangsters is more important then trade.

 

[Robspur12]

One party, even if it's party in power, going on about a subject is not the same as listening.

I think politicians are listening. Though responsible ones know the solutions are more complex. Of course, that doesn't stop the populists pretending they are not. Shame though that they are never properly held to account on any policies.Take for example Farage's manifesto pledge of zero net migration. Even if they were, unfortunately there's a section of the electorate that would still vote for them.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think politicians are listening. Though responsible ones know the solutions are more complex. Of course, that doesn't stop the populists pretending they are not. Shame though that they are never properly held to account on any policies.Take for example Farage's manifesto pledge of zero net migration. Even if they were unfortunately there's a section of the electorate that would still vote for them.

There's too little time and energy expended on explaining that these issues are not going away any time soon.
Immigration is part of the solution, not the problem, but that entails a long term view and for me too many politicians can't see further than the next headline and make promises they can't keep.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

One party, even if it's party in power, going on about a subject is not the same as listening.

It can, if it came after listening.

It the end results of listening that are suspect