Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[scaramanga]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rnment-can-compromise-says-minister-live-news

Barnier says EU would refuse trade talks with UK after no-deal unless backstop addressed
Speaking in Dublin, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, also said that, if the UK were to leave without a deal, the EU would refuse to open trade talks until it got assurances on the Irish border, on citizens’ rights and money.

If the UK were to leave the EU without a deal, let me be very, very clear. We would not discuss anything with the UK until there is an agreement for Ireland and Northern Ireland, as well as for citizens’ rights and the financial settlement.

These are the three issues covered by the withdrawal agreement. So, in other words, Barnier is saying that even if the UK were to leave without signing the withdrawal agreement, it would have to accepted the pledges in that agreement, including on the backstop, if it ever wanted a trade deal with the EU.

Barnier and his fellow EU leaders have made this point before, but perhaps not as bluntly as Barnier did just now.

Some Brexiters think that it would be acceptable for the UK to trade permanently with the EU on WTO terms. But, in the event of a no-deal scenario, most Brexiters would want to UK and the EU to strike a free trade deal, which is why the Barnier threat is significant.

That makes it impossible to vote for May's deal then. Barnier is essentially saying that once we're locked in, it's BINO or they'll never sign a deal - also BINO.

Either he's a fudgewit (entirely possible from everything I've read from him) or he wants a hard Brexit.

 

[glasgowspur]

The 5th largest one in the world

Yes it is just now, won't be under your rules, that was my point, good try though to deflect.

 

[wiziwig]

And how much was Russia's help worth?

I've put up the numbers which reveals that Remain spent more than double what Leave did and all you have is, the Russians?

I'm probably wasting my time but I will tell you, that your friends in Wall Street, such as Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan poured in over a £1m to the Remain fund. I could go into the exact details of the money trail for Remain funding but it would be wasted on here as the facts are ignored by you Socialists and other Remainers.

I will also mention there is George Soros' Open Society Foundation that has a slush fund worth more 18 billion dollars for the globalist cause of big trading blocks that you want implemented The organisation is throwing money around like confetti to all the politicians who oppose the idea of independent sovereign Nations and, who are pushing for open borders.

Open Society Foundation claim over a third of the 750 EU parliamentarians as it's allies (in their pockets), mainly consisting of, Greens, those claiming to be democratic Socialist and those ever so progressive Liberals. They're all behaving like marxists hell bent on as I've already said, destroying the nation state, destroying the white European, politically and are pushing for the creation of controlled trading block to compete with China..

Union with Africa with loads of consumers is in the pipeline...
Open Border fanatics... pah..

 

[SpurMeUp]

I've put up the numbers which reveals that Remain spent more than double what Leave did and all you have is, the Russians?

I'm probably wasting my time but I will tell you, that your friends in Wall Street, such as Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan poured in over a £1m to the Remain fund. I could go into the exact details of the money trail for Remain funding but it would be wasted on here as the facts are ignored by you Socialists and other Remainers.

I will also mention there is George Soros' Open Society Foundation that has a slush fund worth more 18 billion dollars for the globalist cause of big trading blocks that you want implemented The organisation is throwing money around like confetti to all the politicians who oppose the idea of independent sovereign Nations and, who are pushing for open borders.

Open Society Foundation claim over a third of the 750 EU parliamentarians as it's allies (in their pockets), mainly consisting of, Greens, those claiming to be democratic Socialist and those ever so progressive Liberals. They're all behaving like marxists hell bent on as I've already said, destroying the nation state, destroying the white European, politically and are pushing for the creation of controlled trading block to compete with China..

Union with Africa with loads of consumers is in the pipeline...
Open Border fanatics... pah..

Rather than get bogged down pulling apart and debating these claims, could you simply outline what you'd like to see in the UK post Brexit?

 

[r-u-s-x]

That makes it impossible to vote for May's deal then. Barnier is essentially saying that once we're locked in, it's BINO or they'll never sign a deal - also BINO.

Either he's a fudgewit (entirely possible from everything I've read from him) or he wants a hard Brexit.

Where you reading that? Backstop is and always was meant to be a backstop, we could go back with the technological solution we promised (yeh I know) or leave NI in and have a Customs border in the channel like what was planned prior to the GE.

 

[wiziwig]

I only have one issue with that,

how do we calculate the propaganda that the BBC put out in their biased reporting. Obviously I know how much my license fee costs, but still.

Ha ha , yeah...The propaganda is now so overt, they just don't care...

One only has to look at Jo Coburn TV presenter of the lunchtime Politics Live on BBC2 and how she interviews Liberal leader Vince Cable, Remainer, compared to her treatment of UKIP leader Gerard Batten, Leaver...

Then there's the lopsided Question Time, where the Leave panel appearance percentages these past three years since the referendum, have numbered around, a mere 35% of which by far were, Leavers of the Teresa May BINO ilk.

Channel 4 is also another one who benefits from our licence fee contributions... Compare their coverage of the recent Remain demonstration in London to that of the Brexit Betrayal demo.... Jon Snow the presenter covering the brexit betrayal demonstration, stated that he had never seen so many white people in one single place before! He then lied when he stated that the police were out in their riot gear as a show of strength, which were total b*******, elitist scumbag that he is.

The BBC raise just under 4 billion pounds from the licence fee.... The government which is Remain give it a further £5m annually. The EU in the six years prior to the referendum gave something like £25m to the BBC and, in the years 2017/18, the EU gave the BBC around £6m to pay for it's part in project fear...The whole narrative is pro Remain, anti Leave..

Wish I could be of more help to you but then, some Remain poster will just come along, rubbish all what I've written and prove me wrong by explaining to you that "its the Russian-ERG alliance that's all to blame!"

 

[StephenH]

Rather than get bogged down pulling apart and debating these claims, could simply outline what you'd like to see in the UK post Brexit?

I’m starting to think someone has put an hallucinogenic in the water supply m8!

Good luck!

 

[wiziwig]

Rather than get bogged down pulling apart and debating these claims, could you simply outline what you'd like to see in the UK post Brexit?

I no longer want to be part of the undemocratic European Union. I've watched enough of the marxist nonsense spouted by the MEP's in both the parliamentary houses to know that they want to destroy the diversity of European nations and replace it with a compliant population who share their hate for European people...

Anyone who has a differing view is labelled nazi , far-right, such as Viktor Orban because he dared to say that he would not take his quota of migrants that Merkel unilaterally invited into Europe... They've made it a crime to speak out against their federalist plans with the likes of Guy Verhofstadt spewing his hate at illiberal government, how dare the Hungarians 50% vote for a nationalist party.

They're thinking ahead , years ahead . I suggest you do the same and look at what they're into... Then if you want to be a part of their plans then fair enough but I don't

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101432653881008128

 

[SpurMeUp]

I no longer want to be part of the undemocratic European Union. I've watched enough of the marxist nonsense spouted by the MEP's in both the parliamentary houses to know that they want to destroy the diversity of European nations and replace it with a compliant population who share their hate for European people...

Anyone who has a differing view is labelled nazi , far-right, such as Viktor Orban because he dared to say that he would not take his quota of migrants that Merkel unilaterally invited into Europe... They've made it a crime to speak out against their federalist plans with the likes of Guy Verhofstadt spewing his hate at illiberal government, how dare the Hungarians 50% vote for a nationalist party.

They're thinking ahead , years ahead . I suggest you do the same and look at what they're into... Then if you want to be a part of their plans then fair enough but I don't

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101432653881008128

You haven't outlined anything you would like to see happen in the UK. There is nothing you want to happen in the UK, Brexit is solely about a fear of the EU and avoiding its "dictotorial" menace? Can you outline what it is that the EU dictates to us? An example of what it imposes on you or us which upsets you? Something we experience day to day ideally.

What is wrong with trading with Africa? What do you find upsetting about it?

 

[wiziwig]

You haven't outlined anything you would like to see happen in the UK. There is nothing you want to happen in the UK, Brexit is solely about a fear of the EU and avoiding its "dictotorial" menace? Can you outline what it is that the EU dictates to us? An example of what it imposes on you or us which upsets you? Something we experience day to day ideally.

What is wrong with trading with Africa? What do you find upsetting about it?

Trading leads to trading blocks which leads to free movement of people ... I want to preserve Europe not destroy it whilst I fatten my wallet..

Federalists such as yourself want us Europeans to explain why we want to preserve our nations and our right to self-determination, seriously?

When was the last time you visited Paris or Berlin?

I were visiting the west coast of France earlier in the year...I were told that the French don't want to travel to Paris unless they really have to and that the Paris Jewish community is leaving (give you a hint, 'it's not the faaaar riiight that have driven them out)....

 

[StephenH]

This is starting feel like a scene from OFOTCN!

 

[Parklaner81]

That makes it impossible to vote for May's deal then. Barnier is essentially saying that once we're locked in, it's BINO or they'll never sign a deal - also BINO.

Either he's a fudgewit (entirely possible from everything I've read from him) or he wants a hard Brexit.

I've said for a while now, I'm not convinced they want May's deal passing anymore (if they ever did) - I think they're eyeing something softer still at this point.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Trading leads to trading blocks which leads to free movement of people ... I want to preserve Europe not destroy it whilst I fatten my wallet..

Federalists such as yourself want us Europeans to explain why we want to preserve our nations and our right to self-determination, seriously?

When was the last time you visited Paris or Berlin?

I were visiting the west coast of France earlier in the year...I were told that the French don't want to travel to Paris unless they really have to and that the Paris Jewish community is leaving (give you a hint, 'it's not the faaaar riiight that have driven them out)....

1. I am not a "federalist". How have you decended into name calling? If you are right about your beliefs, lets debate it, without insults or getting upset with other people?

2. You can only claim that we need to assert self-determination, if you can outline what it is we can not determine now. And you havn't managed to do that yet. Instead you've outlined a fear of the EU, as though its some forign invasion. Like some kind of horror movie. It's emotion, not based on rational things as far as I can see. I'll ask again, what is it that the EU imposes on the UK that you particularly dislike? Real things we see day to day, not some fear of Africa in the future.

3. I was in Paris in Janurary. I was in La Marais, which is the old Jewish area, and got an amazing fallafel with plenty of Jews all conspicious wearing traditional hats. What has anti-semitism in Paris have to do with Brexit?

 

[DTA]

Trading leads to trading blocks which leads to free movement of people ... I want to preserve Europe not destroy it whilst I fatten my wallet..

Federalists such as yourself want us Europeans to explain why we want to preserve our nations and our right to self-determination, seriously?

When was the last time you visited Paris or Berlin?

I were visiting the west coast of France earlier in the year...I were told that the French don't want to travel to Paris unless they really have to and that the Paris Jewish community is leaving (give you a hint, 'it's not the faaaar riiight that have driven them out)....

Let's not beat around the bush here dude. Let's have an honest discussion.

- What's your opinion on so called 'white flight'?

- what's your ideal vision for Europe (not the EU) in the next say 50 years?

- you wrote about Oban and Soros. Doesnt Oban portrayal of Soros make you a little uncomfortable?

- do you like trump and what he stands for?

Let's start with those.

 

[scaramanga]

Where you reading that? Backstop is and always was meant to be a backstop, we could go back with the technological solution we promised (yeh I know) or leave NI in and have a Customs border in the channel like what was planned prior to the GE.

He want guarantees on citizens rights and financial contribution from us too. We should be using those as part of the negotiation - he doesn't want to start negotiating until that's dealt with.

 

[r-u-s-x]

He want guarantees on citizens rights and financial contribution from us too. We should be using those as part of the negotiation - he doesn't want to start negotiating until that's dealt with.

So the same as negotiations went for the last 2 years ... Position is no different as 2 years ago other than we would be in a weaker position (imo) as we are out rather than in.

 

[scaramanga]

So the same as negotiations went for the last 2 years ... Position is no different as 2 years ago other than we would be in a weaker position (imo) as we are out rather than in.

New PM, new negotiations.

Nothing agreed by May counts once negotiations start and they'll have to offer us more to get it again.

 

[r-u-s-x]

New PM, new negotiations.

Nothing agreed by May counts once negotiations start and they'll have to offer us more to get it again.

Starting point for the EU was those items to have a trade agreement or hard brexit when we were in, if they approach us I am sure those items will change. This is all supposing we want the trade agreement, they are telling us their conditions in order to negotiate.

Perfectly normal and reasonable you can call them red lines if you want

 

[DTA]

New PM, new negotiations.

Nothing agreed by May counts once negotiations start and they'll have to offer us more to get it again.

Or offer us nothing until we agree.... Probably to worse terms?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I've said for a while now, I'm not convinced they want May's deal passing anymore (if they ever did) - I think they're eyeing something softer still at this point.

And Im starting to fear they will get it.

He want guarantees on citizens rights and financial contribution from us too. We should be using those as part of the negotiation - he doesn't want to start negotiating until that's dealt with.

de ja vu, isnt it?

Theyve shown we are worth more to them than they let on previously, its about time we grew a pair.