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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

the dza said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rnment-can-compromise-says-minister-live-news

Barnier says EU would refuse trade talks with UK after no-deal unless backstop addressed
Speaking in Dublin, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, also said that, if the UK were to leave without a deal, the EU would refuse to open trade talks until it got assurances on the Irish border, on citizens’ rights and money.

If the UK were to leave the EU without a deal, let me be very, very clear. We would not discuss anything with the UK until there is an agreement for Ireland and Northern Ireland, as well as for citizens’ rights and the financial settlement.

These are the three issues covered by the withdrawal agreement. So, in other words, Barnier is saying that even if the UK were to leave without signing the withdrawal agreement, it would have to accepted the pledges in that agreement, including on the backstop, if it ever wanted a trade deal with the EU.

Barnier and his fellow EU leaders have made this point before, but perhaps not as bluntly as Barnier did just now.

Some Brexiters think that it would be acceptable for the UK to trade permanently with the EU on WTO terms. But, in the event of a no-deal scenario, most Brexiters would want to UK and the EU to strike a free trade deal, which is why the Barnier threat is significant.
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But in no-deal, the EU have said they would install check-points on the border. So their worst case scenario regarding the backstop will already have been realised/be the status quo at that point in time.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But in no-deal, the EU have said they would install check-points on the border. So their worst case scenario regarding the backstop will already have been realised/be the status quo at that point in time.
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the dza said:
Barnier:

If the UK were to leave the EU without a deal, let me be very, very clear. We would not discuss anything with the UK until there is an agreement for Ireland and Northern Ireland, as well as for citizens’ rights and the financial settlement.
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SpurMeUp said:
The big business that has left? Like Sony, Panasonic and Nissan?
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The ones who the EU exists to make ever wealthier at the expense of citizens. The ones the EU allows to impoverish communities through social dumping and to kill people by rigging emissions tests.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But in no-deal, the EU have said they would install check-points on the border. So their worst case scenario regarding the backstop will already have been realised/be the status quo at that point in time.
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Yes - that's why they are saying sort it or no trade talks.
 
parklane1 said:
Two things

(1) i do not post in here as much as i use to because its the same backwards and forwards opinions by the same folks and it goes nowhere, and i do not want to repeat it all once again.

(2) However in response to your question, we will have to wait and see what happens when we do leave ( because until then NO ONE really knows what will happen).
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1) I understand that, it does get circular.

2) i don't want it to happen, because I believe it will be bad for the UK, the poorest being hit worst, but the middle class won't be immune. But if it does happen I really hope I'm completely wrong and it's an amazing success.
 
DTA said:
1) I understand that, it does get circular.

2) i don't want it to happen, because I believe it will be bad for the UK, the poorest being hit worst, but the middle class won't be immune. But if it does happen I really hope I'm completely wrong and it's an amazing success.
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Well as i say we all have opinions on how it will turn out but we can not be sure until it happens, but this thread keeps going round in circles and despite what some have used as so called proof that it will be a disaster/success ( and you know who you are, not saying you) no one REALLY knows.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The ones who the EU exists to make ever wealthier at the expense of citizens. The ones the EU allows to impoverish communities through social dumping and to kill people by rigging emissions tests.
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Doesn't really make sense. You're suggesting we tax businesses in the EU, who have left the UK, to make up the money that we lose in lost trade from brexit? RIght.
 
parklane1 said:
Well as i say we all have opinions on how it will turn out but we can not be sure until it happens, but this thread keeps going round in circles and despite what some have used as so called proof that it will be a disaster/success ( and you know who you are, not saying you) no one REALLY knows.
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We know quite a few things. Negotiations with the EU were not "easy" as promised. Brexit will challange and possibly break up the kingdom. The trade deals Liam Fox promised would be in place with 3rd countries by now are not, not even close. Many companies have left the UK or have plans to leave (see above Panasonic, Sony etc). Investment into the UK has dropped off a cliff. We REALLY KNOW this. It's not made up. The same people who made promises that none of this would occur are the same people who now say Brexit will be fine. Why trust them when they were wrong with the above thus far?

We also know that our government and treasury, and our UK sovereign bank the Bank of England, who all have exceptional detailed data, and take great pride in trying to make fair and honest economic predctions, say that every type of Brexit damages our economy. We don't know if the predictions will come true, but if you look at the evidence of lost investment into the UK and lost growth which HAS happened and we CAN see, then it suggests that economists predictions are correct. And the consquences of Brexit could be much much worse than us paying 20% more in the shops as we do now - for imported goods.

So we are more or less clear that every type of Brexit has an adverse effect on the UK. For logical reasons that can be outlined and talked through (tho you won't read about them in the Sun). On the flip side, no one can outline the postives of Brexit. So why are people still alligned to a failing idea? And how can we harness the sentiment and national desire for change into something of value??
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Doesn't really make sense. You're suggesting we tax businesses in the EU, who have left the UK, to make up the money that we lose in lost trade from brexit? RIght.
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Tax the ethical businesses who take their place in the market, because the flighty ones won't pass our fair trade barriers
 
Gutter Boy said:
The ones who the EU exists to make ever wealthier at the expense of citizens. The ones the EU allows to impoverish communities through social dumping and to kill people by rigging emissions tests.
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Maybe if governments didn't use emissions as a tax cow emission tests wouldn't be rigged.
And I don't think for a minute even you think governments give a flying fudge about air pollution or the environment if it restricts their tax take.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Tax the ethical businesses who take their place in the market, because the flighty ones won't pass our fair trade barriers
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So you'd tax ethical businesses more than we tax current businesses now, to make up for the shortfalls from Brexit? It doesn't get any clearer to be honest.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
So you'd tax ethical businesses more than we tax current businesses now, to make up for the shortfalls from Brexit? It doesn't get any clearer to be honest.
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Only the businesses who pay fair tax, fair wages and have good levels of social responsibility would be allowed access to our market.
 
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