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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Jurgen the German said:
We’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but Tom Daley would run kicking and screaming back to London if he had to live in some of the commonwealth countries for 5 minutes due to their laws on homosexuality.

Philipp Lahm is boycotting the World Cup in Qatar due to their human rights record. That to me is far braver than what Tom Daley said.
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You are just getting into whataboutery now.

What Daley said was right, that other things are worse doesn’t make the issues he’s focusing on irrelevant. He’s highlighting issues he presumably has firsthand experience of, in a society which should have evolved beyond it.

I thought Lahm had retired? Is he boycotting a tournament he wasn’t selected for anyway? That’s very football, like when fans “send a message” to their chairman by “marching” from the pub to the ground.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We’re not perfect and we have our own problems, but Tom Daley would run kicking and screaming back to London if he had to live in some of the commonwealth countries for 5 minutes due to their laws on homosexuality.

Philipp Lahm is boycotting the World Cup in Qatar due to their human rights record. That to me is far braver than what Tom Daley said.
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You do die on some rather odd hills. He is literally quoted in the article you shared as follows:

Speaking to The Big Issue ahead of the games revealed: "I thought about how fortunate I am. Because in over half the Commonwealth countries that are competing, it is illegal to be queer."

I would say as a rule when someone criticises their own country it’s not because they hate it, but because they hold it up to a higher standard. He has said nothing inflammatory, I’m not sure what the problem is.
 
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AuroRaman said:
You do die on some rather odd hills. He is literally quoted in the article you shared as follows:

Speaking to The Big Issue ahead of the games revealed: "I thought about how fortunate I am. Because in over half the Commonwealth countries that are competing, it is illegal to be queer."

I would say as a rule when someone criticises their own country it’s not because they hate it, but because they hold it up to a higher standard. He had said nothing inflammatory, I’m not sure what the problem is.
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He could go further in criticising countries where homophobia is undoubtedly worse but he’s too scared too.
 
Baleforce said:
You are just getting into whataboutery now.

What Daley said was right, that other things are worse doesn’t make the issues he’s focusing on irrelevant. He’s highlighting issues he presumably has firsthand experience of, in a society which should have evolved beyond it.

I thought Lahm had retired? Is he boycotting a tournament he wasn’t selected for anyway? That’s very football, like when fans “send a message” to their chairman by “marching” from the pub to the ground.
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Lahm said he won’t go as an ambassador or even as a fan to watch his country. I gather a lot of ex players go to tournaments to watch their countries at World Cups.
 
I think speaking out against/to your own is actually braver than making a point to a regime that has no influence over your day to day life, even if it does cost you a few euros.

Daley knows he’s putting a target on his back for the knuckle draggers in this country.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think you’re painting an awfully bleak picture personally mate. I’m all for immigration, immigrants play a vital role in our economy and it makes the country more diverse, but it does come with its problems, it doesn’t make you a bigot if you want to have a debate about the downsides of immigration. There will always be idiots unfortunately, just like there will always be crime. It’s not mission accomplished, but I truly believe the world is a more accepting, tolerant place than it was even 30 years. That doesn’t mean progress is a straight line, there are blips.

I disagree completely that there is a campaign against trans people. Most people I know think they should have rights like anyone else, but don’t think they should be allowed to compete against biological women. I think that’s sensible personally. Let them have their own category in sport. People are also uncomfortable about sharing spaces with them in hospitals, toilets, prisons etc. Can’t say it’s something that affects my life all that much, but I can see why people want to debate it.
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Have you been kind enough to let the trans people know that their struggle is over?
 
Jurgen the German said:
He could go further in criticising countries where homophobia is undoubtedly worse but he’s too scared too.
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Too scared to? He did exactly that in his BBC documentary last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001b0yv/tom-daley-illegal-to-be-me

As thousands of athletes prepare to compete on the global stage at the 2022 Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, Olympic gold medallist and double world champion diver Tom Daley wants to shine a light on an issue that he cares passionately about. Some competitors live in fear of horrific brutality inside the countries they represent. With punishments including whipping, life imprisonment and even death, it is illegal to be gay in over half of the 56 member states of the Commonwealth.

His journey takes him to some of the Commonwealth’s most homophobic countries to ask what the sporting world can do to help. The film culminates with Tom taking a very public stand at this year’s opening ceremony, in a powerful statement against homophobia.

Travelling from Pakistan, where homosexuality carries a maximum penalty of death by stoning, to Jamaica, where the punishment is ten years’ imprisonment with hard labour, Tom talks to top male and female sportspeople facing persecution. He also discovers the colonial legacy that first criminalised homosexuality and the toxic influence of slavery on attitudes towards LGBT+ people.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Lahm said he won’t go as an ambassador or even as a fan to watch his country. I gather a lot of ex players go to tournaments to watch their countries at World Cups.
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He's boycotting like I am, moan about it but still watch it on tv.

‘I’m not part of the delegation and I’m not keen on flying there as a fan,’ the ex-Bayern Munich full-back told Kicker in his homeland. ‘I prefer to follow the tournament from home.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I like how Sebastian Vettel tries to embarrass countries still in the stone age on homophobia. It will be interesting to see if there's any brave players/countries that make a stand in Qatar
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Qatar have made progress with liberalisation. Compared to countries like Saudi they are light years ahead.

we would do better banning anything and everything to do with Saudi and helping with Qatar’s gradual liberalisation - so no to avoiding the World Cup for me, it’s completely counter productive.
 
DTA said:
Qatar have made progress with liberalisation. Compared to countries like Saudi they are light years ahead.

we would do better banning anything and everything to do with Saudi and helping with Qatar’s gradual liberalisation - so no to avoiding the World Cup for me, it’s completely counter productive.
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I was thinking more having One Love rainbow undershirts on and sucking up the FIFA fines for repeatedly revealing them. That sort of Vettel approach.

Although maybe henna body tattoos across their chests, as no mad man is going to wear an undershirt in 50 degrees heat!
 
Jurgen the German said:
Most people I know think they should have the same rights as anyone else. Some people just want a sensible debate when it comes participation in sport for example.
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That's excellent that you and some acquaintances feel comfortable enough to write off any troubles a minority group is going through, whilst presumably not experiencing it firsthand or being directly exposed to it beyond tabloid headlines. One problem solved, on to the next one!
 
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P.D. said:
I think the government are doing a reasonable job on longer term energy security, of course they could and should be doing a lot more.

We're the world leader in installed offshore wind capacity and by 2030 will still comfortable be in the top few countries with more capacity planned than both the US and China. At present 25% off all our electricity comes from wind.

I want us to be much more self sufficient though, we should be investing big in home insulation, better boilers, heat pumps as well as building up more capacity in renewable and nuclear.

If we can fund a lot more research then we can get a headstart in the manufacturing of a lot of this tech as well which will bring decent paying jobs.
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The govt killed fracking and virtually stopped North Sea exploration.

We're doing pretty well at the renewables side of things, but we're a very long way from not needing gas. We've got plenty of that available, but it takes time to find it and dig it up.

When there's loads of cheap gas on the market, not digging for more is an easy vote winner. I doubt it would win many right now.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Your next Pm:


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Think Bryant might come to regret that come the start of the new parliament

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