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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Grays_1890 said:
This is going to be some crisis which will need a huge furlough style bail out in my eyes, the winter has to prospect to be absolutely disastrous
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It’s scary stuff . Has knock on effects into society. Health problems lead to NHS pressure. Suicide will rise and crime rates will rise and so on and on.
 
djp82 said:
It’s scary stuff . Has knock on effects into society. Health problems lead to NHS pressure. Suicide will rise and crime rates will rise and so on and on.
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Without serious government intervention I think that there is a good chance there will be high rates of civil disobedience - people walking out of supermarkets with goods without paying, drive offs from filling stations etc. It gets to a certain level then it becomes impossible to deal with (see the poll tax).
 
Mikey10 said:
Without serious government intervention I think that there is a good chance there will be high rates of civil disobedience - people walking out of supermarkets with goods without paying, drive offs from filling stations etc. It gets to a certain level then it becomes impossible to deal with (see the poll tax).
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On social media there is already a movement trying to push civil disobedience. Dontpayuk.
They are calling for people to collectively cancel their energy Direct debits on on October the 1st . It’s growing daily.

Not saying it’s the correct thing to do but some people may be desperate by then.
 
djp82 said:
On social media there is already a movement trying to push civil disobedience. Dontpayuk.
They are calling for people to collectively cancel their energy Direct debits on on October the 1st . It’s growing daily.

Not saying it’s the correct thing to do but some people may be desperate by then.
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Interesting. Wasn’t aware of that.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Just renationalise all energy. Plus have a debt jubilee. Job done.
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Debt jubilee means nationalising the banks as well. So I won’t even give that attention.

but how would you renationalise energy? It could and should work if you do it properly
 
DTA said:
Debt jubilee means nationalising the banks as well. So I won’t even give that attention.

but how would you renationalise energy? It could and should work if you do it properly
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Just take over BP, Shell, north sea oil and gas, British Gas, EDF, EON, npower, ScottishPower, SSE, the nuclear plants, the wind and solar farms, the water companies. And then set a notional compensation scheme for their shareholders on a 20 year payment schedule.

They were all stolen from the people in the 80s, so it's just taking them back.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Just take over BP, Shell, north sea oil and gas, British Gas, EDF, EON, npower, ScottishPower, SSE, the nuclear plants, the wind and solar farms, the water companies. And then set a notional compensation scheme for their shareholders on a 20 year payment schedule.

They were all stolen from the people in the 80s, so it's just taking them back.
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yeah that will cause much more problems then any it solves- and reduce inward investment to about zero for the next 50 years… apart from that though… yay communism for everyone!!


Why not just buy controlling interest via normal market means?
 
DTA said:
yeah that will cause much more problems then any it solves- and reduce inward investment to about zero for the next 50 years… apart from that though… yay communism for everyone!!


Why not just buy controlling interest via normal market means?
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Why pay back for what was stolen from us? The industries will be profit making as a closed unit, including the transition to absolute zero, so why let super-rich shareholders bleed everything dry?

Not all the private sector, but energy and transport just has to be in public hands - both morally and for reasons of sustainability and security.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Why pay back for what was stolen from us? The industries will be profit making as a closed unit, including the transition to absolute zero, so why let super-rich shareholders bleed everything dry?

Not all the private sector, but energy and transport just has to be in public hands - both morally and for reasons of sustainability and security.
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because they were not stolen from us. The conservative government at the time which the people voted to govern us. Decided to sell off the family jewels in a fit of ideological fanaticism which completely incidentally enriched their chums.
- yet they get voted in time and again and people like you flag waved their latest version of ideologically driven financial flagellation.
 
DTA said:
because they were not stolen from us. The conservative government at the time which the people voted to govern us. Decided to sell off the family jewels in a fit of ideological fanaticism which completely incidentally enriched their chums.
- yet they get voted in time and again and people like you flag waved their latest version of ideologically driven financial flagellation.
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So vote in a government with a manifesto to reclaim them - its the same justification. It's a shame Starmer is holding back from this, but hopefully the catastrophe of this coming winter will change everyone's minds.
 
Wouldn't it have been better to do this when energy firms were failing? You could have taken all the failed smaller companies together in a state-owned company (a la Northern Rock) and then offered better than market rates for people to switch to them.

Setting a lower price cap would mean bigger ones would also likely exit the market and those customers would also be moved to the state company.

Over a relatively short period you would have the biggest energy company state-owned without the bonkers communism approach espoused above.
 
Mikey10 said:
Unbelievably, ‘warm banks’ are now beginning to be mentioned - as in places funded by the community where people who can’t afford to hear their homes can go to escape the cold in winter for a few hours.

In Britain. In the 21st Century.
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Surely we can just all go to the libraries or the youth centres?
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
Surely we can just all go to the libraries or the youth centres?
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I’m not sure if this is a serious question, but in case it is…

At (for example) 9.00pm on a Sunday evening?

And, even if that’s possible, is this really how people are supposed to live in one of the wealthiest nations on earth?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Similar to using external global standards you mean…. I wonder who sets those standards…if only we could feed into them…
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No, I mean don't have those rules.

Most of them aren't nearly fit for purpose and have no effect on safety in this country whatsoever.
 
Robspur12 said:
This is part of the problem, those in favour of Brexit have convinced themselves that it means a simple form here and there to enable movement of goods, people or services as in pre Brexit days. In your industry it may we'll be simple.

But let me give you an example of a food exporter. If they export any product of animal origin they have to get a health certificate signed by either an official vet or a qualified food inspector from the local authority (the latter can only sign if the consignment is fish). If the local authority can't do it, then the exporter needs to find an official veterinary officer, and there are not many of those around. If and when an exporter finds a vet, the process for issuing a health certificate is complicated. Where there are several forms each has to be stamped and signed in a way that satisfies the EU rules, the vet has to then watch the consignment being loaded onto the lorry and certify each step. All this while the LA or the vet charge the exporter an hourly rate which is upwards of £75. So costs and time soon rack up ( for a process that was previously very simple and no additional costs). If the exporter wants to send perishable goods across then it is often not worth it. I find some brexiteers willfully blind to these additional burdens.

Now, in the future a better trade deal might make the export process less onerous. But at the moment it is not always just a case of completing a "simple" form. I think that is why we have seen a major drop in exports between the UK and the EU, previously our largest export market.
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That's just the EU working overly hard to try and convince the rest of those they're scamming that being in the club is better.

That level of protectionism has been increasing our import costs for decades. We shouldn't want any part of that.
 
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