Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Diamond Lights]

When you see the issues we are facing with 11% inflation, with those most deserving of pay rises being told to take the hit, you wonder how long we can keep this Brexit charade going for now.

I was trying to write a good point on this but i found the tweet instead. One day in the future we will be able to reasonably discuss Brexit. And i hope, those that voted for it, will be able to accept it wasn't what was sold on the tin. But i dont know if and when that day will come.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538799136178417664

Ultimately, we have had very little, if any benefit. I mean, our Brexit Opportunities Minister labelled Hoovers with higher Kwh power as one of the benefits. We were going to give the 350M a week to the NHS (instead we all got whacked 1.5%), lowest G20 growth ahead of only Russia who have been sanctioned to brick. But until a reasonable discourse, mainly from those who supported it, can accept it was an error, we'll never get anywhere. By nearly every possible metric, the UK is fairing worse.

You know who has done well out of Brexit? Northern Ireland. Bigger growth than England and Scotland. If only we could figure out why...

 

[SpurMeUp]

The effects are more dramatic than I thought actually. I predicted we'd see a slower more steady decline over many years. While covid has muddied the waters, it looks like there is more profound impact. But hard to say still, as data for a whole nation is complex.

The sooner we can correct the problems the better. No one but no one voted to make the UK poorer.

 

[Mikey10]

The sooner we can correct the problems the better. No one but no one voted to make the UK poorer.

Unfortunately many didn’t (or didn’t have the ability to) investigate the likely outcomes and voted to leave because “we take too many immigrants”, without any real consideration of the economic effects - apart for the mythical £300 million a week on the side of the bus.

There is something odd in the English psyche which leans towards a very odd sense of exceptionalism. It was also easy to see as the pandemic swept towards us.

 

[glasgowspur]

Unfortunately many didn’t (or didn’t have the ability to) investigate the likely outcomes and voted to leave because “we take too many immigrants”, without any real consideration of the economic effects - apart for the mythical £300 million a week on the side of the bus.

There is something odd in the English psyche which leans towards a very odd sense of exceptionalism. It was also easy to see as the pandemic swept towards us.

Exeptionalism is by no means limited to the English.
Its everywhere, it just about anywhere that people group together, countries, counties, cities, religions, football clubs, etc.
They all think they are different and by definition better.

 

[Diamond Lights]

The sooner we can correct the problems the better. No one but no one voted to make the UK poorer.

No they did. They very much did. It didn't matter because it got rid of 'them foreign lot'. But let's be clear, it was stated multiple times it would be the case.They voted for that very thing

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Unfortunately many didn’t (or didn’t have the ability to) investigate the likely outcomes and voted to leave because “we take too many immigrants”, without any real consideration of the economic effects - apart for the mythical £300 million a week on the side of the bus.

There is something odd in the English psyche which leans towards a very odd sense of exceptionalism. It was also easy to see as the pandemic swept towards us.

I don't know about that side of it but my wife who is Irish thinks I have the island mentality combined with huge trust issues so voted leave because one I don't want to be part of a club and two I think the more politicians theworse the outcome.

Despite nagging me about everything under the sun she has me pretty much spot on most of the time.

I also don't care if we are worse off leaving the EU. The smallish number of illegals should find asylum in the first country they come to. But once here should he given national insurance numbers and made to work like me.

Biggest problem this country faces is the green lobby and benefit cheats. Both oddly emboldened by a Conservative government.

I don't hate the tories like some but if we have to have them why can't we have the hood bits like picking on benefit scum and coal power stations so I don't freeze this winter.

 

[Rorschach]

I was trying to write a good point on this but i found the tweet instead. One day in the future we will be able to reasonably discuss Brexit. And i hope, those that voted for it, will be able to accept it wasn't what was sold on the tin. But i dont know if and when that day will come.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538799136178417664

Ultimately, we have had very little, if any benefit. I mean, our Brexit Opportunities Minister labelled Hoovers with higher Kwh power as one of the benefits. We were going to give the 350M a week to the NHS (instead we all got whacked 1.5%), lowest G20 growth ahead of only Russia who have been sanctioned to brick. But until a reasonable discourse, mainly from those who supported it, can accept it was an error, we'll never get anywhere. By nearly every possible metric, the UK is fairing worse.

You know who has done well out of Brexit? Northern Ireland. Bigger growth than England and Scotland. If only we could figure out why...

I predicted that very thing in this thread about 5 years ago. And they could be doing even better if the threats around the protocol stopped. That is just adding doubt in the mind of investors for no good reason.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I predicted that very thing in this thread about 5 years ago. And they could be doing even better if the threats around the protocol stopped. That is just adding doubt in the mind of investors for no good reason.

Speaking of NI protocol: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...ys-trading-aided-by-ni-protocol-41769929.html

 

[DTA]

I predicted that very thing in this thread about 5 years ago. And they could be doing even better if the threats around the protocol stopped. That is just adding doubt in the mind of investors for no good reason.

I mentioned this as well. The thing is, as it stands the Uk has for most intents and purposes part of its territory inside the EU. This could be a massive advantage if the government only embraced it rather than treating it as an opportunity for conflict with the EU and to continue to score populist points to hide their ineptitude and damage they have done the country at large.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Can the UK afford Brexit now? Until recently I'd been sad about it, but accepting a diverged path was something we should follow. I thought we'd look a laughing stock if we rejoined the EU, and why not explore Brexit now we're here? But with the UK losing circa £800m a week relative to being in, whilst nurses, teachers, carers, and train cleaners have their wages shrunk in real terms to pay for it; can we afford to stay out? I could see us re-joining the single market (but remaining out the EU), which would address many of the major problems.

Meanwhile, non-EU migration to the UK remains high, with around 250,000 people a year coming in. We always have controlled this migration, it has nothing to do with the EU. EU migration is now almost nothing. And we miss having access to our local markets. Why didn't we reduce non-EU migration more, and take charge of EU migration? We could have and we still could.

When you see the issues we are facing with 11% inflation, with those most deserving of pay rises being told to take the hit, you wonder how long we can keep this Brexit charade going.

Wages should start going up now the population is starting to gradually shrink. As demand for labour leaps ahead of supply, there starts to be a big shift in power dynamics between workers and employers. Seeing unions feeling empowered again is really good news - they know they can't be undercut by more social dumping.

Things are actually looking pretty positive for the curbing of our system of extreme neo-liberalism, which was my main Brexit goal.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I mentioned this as well. The thing is, as it stands the Uk has for most intents and purposes part of its territory inside the EU. This could be a massive advantage if the government only embraced it rather than treating it as an opportunity for conflict with the EU and to continue to score populist points to hide their ineptitude and damage they have done the country at large.

Or better still, used it as an opportunity to wash our hands of the UK as a concept and let Dublin take over subsidising and trying to govern the place.

 

[Rorschach]

I mentioned this as well. The thing is, as it stands the Uk has for most intents and purposes part of its territory inside the EU. This could be a massive advantage if the government only embraced it rather than treating it as an opportunity for conflict with the EU and to continue to score populist points to hide their ineptitude and damage they have done the country at large.

Well therein is the dilemma. That would be to admit that being inside the EU is a massive advantage, which it is obviously.

 

[Baleforce]

Exeptionalism is by no means limited to the English.
Its everywhere, it just about anywhere that people group together, countries, counties, cities, religions, football clubs, etc.
They all think they are different and by definition better.

I think you’ll find we are exceptional at exceptionalism, it’s a word in our language don’t forget.

We are just better at things because we’re British, stiff upper lip, blitz spirit what.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Well therein is the dilemma. That would be to admit that being inside the EU is a massive advantage, which it is obviously.

The Emperors New Clothes dilemma. Once you break the pretence seal, the whole thing is exposed.

In a similar way, we ended up with a hard Brexit. It became clear that a soft Brexit (although less damaging) was worse than staying in. So to save face almost, we were led balls-deep into a more damaging exit.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No they did. They very much did. It didn't matter because it got rid of 'them foreign lot'. But let's be clear, it was stated multiple times it would be the case.They voted for that very thing

Point is the ballot didn’t ask: would you like to make the UK poorer? A third of the nation weren’t voting for anarchy. We were told (lied to) that we’d actually do better financially. We’d export more to non-EU nations and we’d be free of the EU red tape. The irony is we have tonnes more red tape now as a direct result. And that the EU was always first and foremost about trade. People who voted to leave for a better life for Brits should not be blamed. There were conducive arguments made with an apparently strong logic. Key was making it about immigration and not the economy. That was where Russian funding of Cambridge Analytica paid dividends for Leave - they built the winning strategy. By the time Remain understood all this, it was too late.

 

[DTA]

Wages should start going up now the population is starting to gradually shrink. As demand for labour leaps ahead of supply, there starts to be a big shift in power dynamics between workers and employers. Seeing unions feeling empowered again is really good news - they know they can't be undercut by more social dumping.

Things are actually looking pretty positive for the curbing of our system of extreme neo-liberalism, which was my main Brexit goal.

wage increase will do wonders for inflation that is running at 11% so just to keep par that’s an 11% wage increase… which of course won’t be enough… because as you said labour shortages will mean increases above inflation… which will then increase… you guessed it inflation!

what’s the response to inflation? Raising interest rates… taking money out of the economy… which leads to… recession…. Which leads to?

 

[DTA]

Or better still, used it as an opportunity to wash our hands of the UK as a concept and let Dublin take over subsidising and trying to govern the place.

right so give up probably the only advantage we have in all of this mess…

the point is, if governed right with NI being in the EU but part of the UK, it can become a net contributor and also a conduit for businesses in the rest of the uk for easier business with the eu.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think you’ll find we are exceptional at exceptionalism, it’s a word in our language don’t forget.

We are just better at things because we’re British, stiff upper lip, blitz spirit what.

I know that you are posting that tongue in Cheek, but is it any different anywhere else in the world?
Up here its we invented the steam engine, railways, tv, the telephone, the bike, built the best ships in the world, discovered penicillin, developed ultra sound, blah blah.
There was a poster at Scottish airports, welcome to the best small country in the world, i mean ffs!
The french go on about their culture, food, wine, language.
The Italians similar but throw in the romans.
German engineering, philosophy, well run state etc.
And don't even start on America, land of the the free, protected by GHod the Almighty.
People are just macarons.

 

[glasgowspur]

Or better still, used it as an opportunity to wash our hands of the UK as a concept and let Dublin take over subsidising and trying to govern the place.

Can Dublin afford to take it over?
Financially or politically?
They could quickly find out just who their friends in the EU are.
NI is a basket case, and from what i can see its one a lot of people claim they want, but at the moment the only ones willing to pay for it are the tory party.

 

[Gutter Boy]

wage increase will do wonders for inflation that is running at 11% so just to keep par that’s an 11% wage increase… which of course won’t be enough… because as you said labour shortages will mean increases above inflation… which will then increase… you guessed it inflation!

what’s the response to inflation? Raising interest rates… taking money out of the economy… which leads to… recession…. Which leads to?

It's a bit radical for this country I know, but I'd start with taxing wealth. Especially shareholders and landlords.

I'd also look at the concept of national maximum wage - set at national minimum wage x 20 or something similar.