Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[DTA]

Do you have any idea how many times me and others have had to say over the years the reason for leaving?

We did it so many times. You guys never listened, instead just went off going on about your own fears or reasons we should not leave. That is why the red wall collapsed at the last election.

I have done it so many times it is literally hair pulling out time to go through it again. Which though I like you as a poster I can only assume you are trolling on this particular issue. Because I know you have been on this site and this topic for years.

You guys have the right to disagree with our reasons for voting out, but to say you don't know is just trolling. I had hoped we would not have to go through all this again, not because I care that much what a bunch of people on the Internet that I will never meet think. But because I want a labour government next time and I fear people still can't bring them to associate themselves with people who belittle them and their views.

Mate I'm not asking for your or @parklane1 reasons why you choose to vote leave. That for me is done. We have Brexit. I genuinely want it to be successful, infact I wouldn't want us to rejoin now (as the terms we would get from the EU would be worse than what we had).

At the risk of repeating myself, now we are committed, I want Brexit to work I really do.

I'm just asking what are the benefits so far?
Do see opportunities that maybe arriving, what are they?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Are you making this up or do you know this for real? As far as I am aware all countries not forming part of the EU are classed as “third countries” and unless there are specific derogations additional checks on their imports are required. Nonetheless it is interesting that we signed a deal hoping that the other side wouldn’t expect us to follow its terms.

Was widely reported months back, even in opinion pieces in the guardian they were saying the was more checks with us then all the other borders bordering the EU. That does not sound like equality to me.

Yet despite this I have not read anything about people or companies trying to get through things they can not. Delays and issues with paperwork.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

You’re kidding right?

The tories have their tentacles reaching throughout the BBC.

The current BBC chairman has donated £400k to the tories.

Yeah I saw they have the odd token tory in a position high up. Usually a tory in name only.

I am more interested in their news programmes, who directs them who their researchers are and who the presenters are. So many admit to the Liberal bias when they leave.

But the crutch of that particular issue is to see who most strongly defends it when people talk about getting rid of it.....

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think it’s naive to suggest that party politics played no part in the referendum, especially when the “winners” of the Leave campaign ended up at the head and heart (if that exists) of government.

And then, the tories had “getting brexit done” as the main pillar of their GE campaign and continue to try to use it to score points - wrongly claiming it was the reason we could start the vaccination programme and for stopping the ESL farce.

It is not naive because I know plenty in fact everyone I know who voted out did so because they wanted to come out. If party politics had played a part and the coalition government at the time campaigned to stay in and the Labour opposition campaigned to stay in, how come we voted leave????

That completely destroys your argument.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

But there’s no real way to be able to move on as the effect of the vote is enduring.

And it’s compounded by the fact that much of the current situation is predicated on the lies of the Leave campaign. So those lies are still in play, they are current and active.

And until leavers - whether those in power or the voters - come to terms with that then it will be very difficult to move on because their arguments are disingenuous. We won’t be able to get to the root of the problems because there’s widespread denial about the causes.

Take haulage drivers as the example: the tories are denying it’s *anything* to do with brexit. They blame it all on Covid.

So rather than addressing the EU worker situation, they would rather lower driver standards, make the driving test easier and increase driver hours, putting people at risk, than accept the reality that it was their decision that has directly led to the problem.

But they can’t accept the real reason for the problem as that would mean they would have to admit to lying. And around we go.

With regards the driver shortage it saddens me that you lack the intelligence (maybe your just trolling) to understand how the visa system works.

Just this week we waved goodbye to a regular in our local who is off to work in America. If the are workers needed here the government can open up the visa entry system to allow more workers in. They have that power since we voted to leave, they can not blame the EU.

If drivers are not coming to the UK then it will be because we are not offering them enough money. I have seen poor working hours and pay be excused as a reason for the unwillingness of drivers to come to the UK.

Training more UK drivers can only be a good thing as it means more money will stay in the country then being sent back to other countries which is what the overseas workers I have know do. Increasing the tax receipts of the country is a good idea and so is getting people off benefits.

If the price of things go up to cover increased wages surely that is a good thing. Has it not been a policy of the far left to increase living standards? Or does the current view by people with your warped mindest show your true disdain of the working class.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Mate I'm not asking for your or @statlover1 reasons why you choose to vote leave. That for me is done. We have Brexit. I genuinely want it to be successful, infact I wouldn't want us to rejoin now (as the terms we would get from the EU would be worse than what we had).

At the risk of repeating myself, now we are committed, I want Brexit to work I really do.

I'm just asking what are the benefits so far?
Do see opportunities that maybe arriving, what are they?

You are trolling. My GHod I actually thought you were better then this. It has been done to death we have said it time and time and time and time and time boring reading this right and time and time I could go on and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Increased control of our laws, so whoever we vote into government is completely responsible for what happens.

Yes control over borders as many communities have been overwhelmed by immigrants placing a strain on housing and schools and health services.

Increased trade with the rest of the world which we are slowly starting to do through trade deals, this is a long term thing and when you see the projections for the growing middle class in Asia particularly makes perfect sense.

I brought dome flowers from South Africa last week that were kept in a new air contained bag keeping them fresh. We can strike trade deals away from a protectionist EU with any country in the world we want. We can shape our destiny.

We are not on the hook for any things that go wrong in the EU. 2008 the euro got into trouble and is a fact we sent money to prop up a currency that will eventually fail as so many different economies can not fit into a single currency.

I am sorry to say this next line and I thought about it before writing it. But you are a real piece of brick for making me go through this all again and it is because of people like you I fear Johnson will win next time. Because when I come across people like you I waver in support of labour, which is what I guess is happening to the former red wall supporters in the Midlands and the North.

The lines you and others say about not wanting to rejoin are as easy to read through as when a racist says they have black friends. No one believes it and what I and the red wall supporters up north are going to have to do is decide whether we truly believe Sir Kermer.

 

[DTA]

You are trolling. My GHod I actually thought you were better then this. It has been done to death we have said it time and time and time and time and time boring reading this right and time and time I could go on and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Increased control of our laws, so whoever we vote into government is completely responsible for what happens.

Yes control over borders as many communities have been overwhelmed by immigrants placing a strain on housing and schools and health services.

Increased trade with the rest of the world which we are slowly starting to do through trade deals, this is a long term thing and when you see the projections for the growing middle class in Asia particularly makes perfect sense.

I brought dome flowers from South Africa last week that were kept in a new air contained bag keeping them fresh. We can strike trade deals away from a protectionist EU with any country in the world we want. We can shape our destiny.

We are not on the hook for any things that go wrong in the EU. 2008 the euro got into trouble and is a fact we sent money to prop up a currency that will eventually fail as so many different economies can not fit into a single currency.

I am sorry to say this next line and I thought about it before writing it. But you are a real piece of brick for making me go through this all again and it is because of people like you I fear Johnson will win next time. Because when I come across people like you I waver in support of labour, which is what I guess is happening to the former red wall supporters in the Midlands and the North.

The lines you and others say about not wanting to rejoin are as easy to read through as when a racist says they have black friends. No one believes it and what I and the red wall supporters up north are going to have to do is decide whether we truly believe Sir Kermer.

Believe what you want mate... im not trolling, I'm just asking for tangible results that have actually happened now that we have left, not why you voted the way you did... which is what you provided above... none of those things have come to pass in any significant way, in which it would benefit anyone in the UK.

We are where we are, there were a lot of promises made, the fishermen and the farmers have been done over, so have a lot of others, I'm asking what are the benefits to counter balance this, ie what are the promises that have been kept, that are benefiting people now? So really don't know why you are throwing such a hissy fit about it????

PS some of my best mates are Brexiteers ) (ok on that line only, I'm trolling).

As for you saying that you don't believe I don't want to rejoin. Mate you are judging me by your standards. You have an irrational fear/distrust/ hatred for the EU. And because of this you expect me as a "remainer" to have love and trust for the EU. No, mate it does t work like that, im ambivalent towards the EU as an institution. I wanted us to remain solely because I knew it would be best for the UK. Now we have left, any re-entry negotiations would be extremely painful for the uk (thanks to the actions of Brexiteers), and trying to re-enter so soon would be seen as complete capitulation and harm the UK. So no I genuinely don't want to re-enter at the moment because of the reason I voted the way I did in the referendum... i have the best interests of the country that I and most of my family Live at heart

Re @ you because of the edits. @Danishfurniturelover

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Yeah I saw they have the odd token tory in a position high up. Usually a tory in name only.

I am more interested in their news programmes, who directs them who their researchers are and who the presenters are. So many admit to the Liberal bias when they leave.

But the crutch of that particular issue is to see who most strongly defends it when people talk about getting rid of it.....

Oh, someone impartial Andrew Neil or like Robbie Gibb you mean?

This Robbie Gibb -

Sir Robbie Paul Gibb is a British public relations professional, political advisor, and broadcast journalist. Robbie Gibb, brother of Conservative MP Nick Gibb, was the head of the BBC's political programme output before leaving the BBC in July 2017 to become Director of Communications at 10 Downing Street.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

With regards the driver shortage it saddens me that you lack the intelligence (maybe your just trolling) to understand how the visa system works.

Just this week we waved goodbye to a regular in our local who is off to work in America. If the are workers needed here the government can open up the visa entry system to allow more workers in. They have that power since we voted to leave, they can not blame the EU.

If drivers are not coming to the UK then it will be because we are not offering them enough money. I have seen poor working hours and pay be excused as a reason for the unwillingness of drivers to come to the UK.

Training more UK drivers can only be a good thing as it means more money will stay in the country then being sent back to other countries which is what the overseas workers I have know do. Increasing the tax receipts of the country is a good idea and so is getting people off benefits.

If the price of things go up to cover increased wages surely that is a good thing. Has it not been a policy of the far left to increase living standards? Or does the current view by people with your warped mindest show your true disdain of the working class.

Let’s keep it civil, eh.

We clearly disagree.

My view is that it’s pretty obvious now - as it was at the time tbh - that brexit was a con.

Lie upon lie to skew a result in their favour.

What is surprising is that many of the conned - those that believed the £350m for the NHS, those that believed the Turkish accession, those that believed in immediate and better trade deals, those that believed we weren’t sovereign - are still advocating for brexit.

I guess it’s pride.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

You are trolling. My GHod I actually thought you were better then this. It has been done to death we have said it time and time and time and time and time boring reading this right and time and time I could go on and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Increased control of our laws, so whoever we vote into government is completely responsible for what happens.

Yes control over borders as many communities have been overwhelmed by immigrants placing a strain on housing and schools and health services.

Increased trade with the rest of the world which we are slowly starting to do through trade deals, this is a long term thing and when you see the projections for the growing middle class in Asia particularly makes perfect sense.

I brought dome flowers from South Africa last week that were kept in a new air contained bag keeping them fresh. We can strike trade deals away from a protectionist EU with any country in the world we want. We can shape our destiny.

We are not on the hook for any things that go wrong in the EU. 2008 the euro got into trouble and is a fact we sent money to prop up a currency that will eventually fail as so many different economies can not fit into a single currency.

I am sorry to say this next line and I thought about it before writing it. But you are a real piece of brick for making me go through this all again and it is because of people like you I fear Johnson will win next time. Because when I come across people like you I waver in support of labour, which is what I guess is happening to the former red wall supporters in the Midlands and the North.

The lines you and others say about not wanting to rejoin are as easy to read through as when a racist says they have black friends. No one believes it and what I and the red wall supporters up north are going to have to do is decide whether we truly believe Sir Kermer.

Just on the trade deals point: the government’s own forecasts show that they won’t make up the deficit from the lost EU business.

 

[monkeybarry]

Your hatred of the conservatives is showing through there, you are also wrong. The referendum was not party political and many have voted out that would never vote Conservative. You party political bias is showing itself and this is not an opinion but you are wrong. Labour had it in the last election manifesto that they would leave(corban was flapping on the issue though)

None of which is relevant to my post.

So - back on track; explain how voting for Brexit was not a mandate for the Government in power at the time to deliver Brexit.
(You usually avoid an answer at this point.)

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

None of which is relevant to my post.

So - back on track; explain how voting for Brexit was not a mandate for the Government in power at the time to deliver Brexit.
(You usually avoid an answer at this point.)

I have not avoided answering it. I am now going to di it capitals as you are to bloody stupid or more likely trolling.

WHEN I VOTED FOR BREXIT THE GOVERNMENT POSITION LED BY PRIME MINISTER CAMERON WAS TO REMAIN.

You can not be so stupid as to not remember this. He literally whipped the youth up into a franzy with scare stories and then extended the deadline for which people could register to vote.

THE CONSERVATIVE POLICY AT THE REFERENDUM WAS TO REMAIN.

Voting leave did not give a mandate to the government. David Cameron was the most senior of the lot of them and his clear policy was to remain. Do not try to rewrite history. Maybe since Trump people feel they can do that. But when I have time tonight I can put YouTube videos of Cameron telling people to vote remain. So voting leave against the wish of the Conservative party does not give them a mandate.

I have not voted Conservative since the credit crunch so that obviously includes the last 5 years. But after successive attempts to overturn the outcome of the referendum, a lot of former Labour supporters lent them their vote. But this was after the referendum and after May had been in charge. That was long after the original referendum brexit vote.


I have explained this clearly severs times now. By keep on saying that I have not you will get the same likes from the same posters with the same entrenched views. But frankly you and the others are trolling because you have all been told the same answers over the years. It is why the site lost some decent posters, why the politics thread is a weird echo chamber and why outside in the country as a whole we face the prospect of another Conservative government. Because knowing the are people like you about makes normal people less likely to vote Labour.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Let’s keep it civil, eh.

.

That works both ways, so if you keep sprouting the same lies and asking the same questions and pretending you have not heard the answers before I have no intention of being civil. So don't try and take the moral high ground with me.

What is the biggest shame is that with people like you out there I genuinely feel the is actually less chance of getting rid of Johnson. It is like how no normal person could bring themselves to vote for kinnock because of the imbeciles supporting him.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Because apart from being an arsenal fan and hating the Jews when he should hate all religions his views were closer to mine then Johnson. I did not like some of the momentum lot at all. But I did not like some of the UKIP members when I voted for them.

You go to which party you think will do more good or less harm to the country. Well that is how I vote anyway.

In no way is there any evidence that Corbyn 'hates Jews.' He hates Likud and he has a big problem with how Israel treats Palestinians, as I do, but that does not make him a Jew hater. As I have observed before, the right wing media settled on the antisemitic smear, when the communist one wasn't gaining any traction.

 

[monkeybarry]

I have not avoided answering it. I am now going to di it capitals as you are to bloody stupid or more likely trolling.

WHEN I VOTED FOR BREXIT THE GOVERNMENT POSITION LED BY PRIME MINISTER CAMERON WAS TO REMAIN.

You can not be so stupid as to not remember this. He literally whipped the youth up into a franzy with scare stories and then extended the deadline for which people could register to vote.

THE CONSERVATIVE POLICY AT THE REFERENDUM WAS TO REMAIN.

Voting leave did not give a mandate to the government. David Cameron was the most senior of the lot of them and his clear policy was to remain. Do not try to rewrite history. Maybe since Trump people feel they can do that. But when I have time tonight I can put YouTube videos of Cameron telling people to vote remain. So voting leave against the wish of the Conservative party does not give them a mandate.

I have not voted Conservative since the credit crunch so that obviously includes the last 5 years. But after successive attempts to overturn the outcome of the referendum, a lot of former Labour supporters lent them their vote. But this was after the referendum and after May had been in charge. That was long after the original referendum brexit vote.


I have explained this clearly severs times now. By keep on saying that I have not you will get the same likes from the same posters with the same entrenched views. But frankly you and the others are trolling because you have all been told the same answers over the years. It is why the site lost some decent posters, why the politics thread is a weird echo chamber and why outside in the country as a whole we face the prospect of another Conservative government. Because knowing the are people like you about makes normal people less likely to vote Labour.

So, who did you have expect to deliver Brexit?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

BTW, still waiting on that list of great benefits derived from leaving Europe.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

That works both ways, so if you keep sprouting the same lies and asking the same questions and pretending you have not heard the answers before I have no intention of being civil. So don't try and take the moral high ground with me.

What is the biggest shame is that with people like you out there I genuinely feel the is actually less chance of getting rid of Johnson. It is like how no normal person could bring themselves to vote for kinnock because of the imbeciles supporting him.

I don’t think I’ve asked you any repeated questions. I’ve posted in this thread now and then over the years but tbh I don’t check back to see if you and I have interacted on a particular point. If you feel we have then you can simply choose not to answer.

I also haven’t posted any lies.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Oh, someone impartial Andrew Neil or like Robbie Gibb you mean?

This Robbie Gibb -

Sir Robbie Paul Gibb is a British public relations professional, political advisor, and broadcast journalist. Robbie Gibb, brother of Conservative MP Nick Gibb, was the head of the BBC's political programme output before leaving the BBC in July 2017 to become Director of Communications at 10 Downing Street.

Sorry for quoting myself, but I forgot about that famous wokeist and definitely not-a-Tory Tim Davie.

This Tim Davie -

Timothy Douglas Davie CBE is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC, and a former politician. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios.

Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

In no way is there any evidence that Corbyn 'hates Jews.' He hates Likud and he has a big problem with how Israel treats Palestinians, as I do, but that does not make him a Jew hater. As I have observed before, the right wing media settled on the antisemitic smear, when the communist one wasn't gaining any traction.

He sure as he'll turned a blind eye to a lot of jew beating by his followers. Which did not bother me and would not have stopped me voting for him. Just think people should hate all religions equally.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

So, who did you have expect to deliver Brexit?

You are simply trolling and it is literally fcuking pathetic and it is why so many people have left you freaks to your anti democracy love in. I won't be posting in this thread again with you guys. But it so explains to me why the red wall collapsed.

You guys will just never give up, shame your wasting your time on something destined to fail as the EU is.

To any of the posters that have been sending me PM's about the posters in this thread. You were right and I was wrong about them.