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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Glenda's Legs said:
Boris could eat his young son in public, Starmer would find a fence to sit on to watch the feast, all while the Tories get another boost in the polls. It's just depressing.
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Its terrifying. Starmer is woeful tbh. A real left candidate would still fail but at least do better than this middle of the ground nothing that Keir and his team are trying.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Its terrifying. Starmer is woeful tbh. A real left candidate would still fail but at least do better than this middle of the ground nothing that Keir and his team are trying.
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I'm incredibly disappointed with what Labour is at the moment. There will hardly be a better opportunity for the opposition to show up the government for what it is, but Starmer treats everything as if he is in the courtroom slowly, slowly building a case waiting to deliver the sucker punch by which time the Tories have shrugged him off and moved onto the next thing. Starmer is just not up to the job. Well, unless he sees the job as being Tory-lite, in which case he's probably doing quite well.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
What on earth has Johnson got to do with the existence of D&I leads?
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Let me help here.
Scara thinks that any NHS staff who believe they should have a payrise are scum. Add teachers to the list of professionals who Scara also feels are scum for wanting a payrise. Basically, unless you're at the heart of the corporate engine fudging your fellow human being for as much Tonga as you can squeeze from them, he believes you deserve not one penny more.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Isn't the point that it's the brands he has partnered with that have sponsored a lot of his initiatives? I thought you'd approve.
Apart from when the government had to pay to ensure children were fed. Which is a far better use of public money than the billions going to cabinet ministers' mates.
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The government doesn't pay for anything. You and I paid for that.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Its terrifying. Starmer is woeful tbh. A real left candidate would still fail but at least do better than this middle of the ground nothing that Keir and his team are trying.
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I’m stunned at starmer as I know people who have worked with him and cannot speak high enough of him
We have seen none of that from him so far and there doesn’t appear to be anyone wanting to topple him
People like Burnham seem happy doing what they need to within their own patch and doing a good job
Such a shame
 
I think Starmer trying to be Blair without his charisma and personality (war criminal nonetheless) is a problem. Also trying to be Tory lite doesn't work unless the Mail or Sun back you. And they are riding the populist wave, that they helped create, with a passion, so he is effed.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m stunned at starmer as I know people who have worked with him and cannot speak high enough of him
We have seen none of that from him so far and there doesn’t appear to be anyone wanting to topple him
People like Burnham seem happy doing what they need to within their own patch and doing a good job
Such a shame
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I wonder if Burnham wants to be the leader after the leader after Starmer
 
LutonSpurs said:
Its terrifying. Starmer is woeful tbh. A real left candidate would still fail but at least do better than this middle of the ground nothing that Keir and his team are trying.
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I think Starmer's problem is the left of his party.

If they supported him in making Labour relevant again, he'd be doing a lot better. They keep undermining him though.

Look at Thatcher. It doesn't matter how great the leader of the party is, if vested interests in the party undermine them, they won't make it.
 
I wonder what the Conservative Party, and the papers, thought chaos under Corbyn would look like?

Empty shelves in the shops? Medical supplies being threatened due to broken supply chains? Public debt spiralling out of control? A shortage of workers? Britain seen as an international laughing stock due to a scruffy and clueless PM being notionally in charge, and the failure to abide by agreements they willingly signed with other countries?

Hmmm…
 
scaramanga said:
I think Starmer's problem is the left of his party.

If they supported him in making Labour relevant again, he'd be doing a lot better. They keep undermining him though.

Look at Thatcher. It doesn't matter how great the leader of the party is, if vested interests in the party undermine them, they won't make it.
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I think Labours problem is that they are a left party traditionally and now stand for neither. Centrism is a wonderful concept amongst a small portion of society. The rest are left or right and polarised. He needs to pick one and not the Tory one if he wants to win. Remember the last Labour win was The Sun supporting Blair. The closest since was JC on a pure left manifesto.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I think Labours problem is that they are a left party traditionally and now stand for neither. Centrism is a wonderful concept amongst a small portion of society. The rest are left or right and polarised. He needs to pick one and not the Tory one if he wants to win. Remember the last Labour win was The Sun supporting Blair. The closest since was JC on a pure left manifesto.
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The other way of describing that is that the last left of centre election winner was more than 40 years ago.

Labour can't take a traditionally left stance as that no longer exists in electable UK politics.

The old centre ground is the left now.
 
Mikey10 said:
I wonder what the Conservative Party, and the papers, thought chaos under Corbyn would look like?

Empty shelves in the shops? Medical supplies being threatened due to broken supply chains? Public debt spiralling out of control? A shortage of workers? Britain seen as an international laughing stock due to a scruffy and clueless PM being notionally in charge, and the failure to abide by agreements they willingly signed with other countries?

Hmmm…
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That's during a global pandemic. A Corbyn government would have looked like that regardless
 
scaramanga said:
The other way of describing that is that the last left of centre election winner was more than 40 years ago.

Labour can't take a traditionally left stance as that no longer exists in electable UK politics.

The old centre ground is the left now.
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The right belongs to the Tories, Labour cannot move in that direction and expect success. It comes down to the reality that the electorate is generally Tory and Labour have picked a strategy which will not win them an election and moved them away from the ideological base.
 
treepits said:
That's during a global pandemic. A Corbyn government would have looked like that regardless
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I’d say things are being made worse by very poor leadership and by Brexit. The pandemic is actually proving to be useful cover for most of the things I listed.

I am no fan of Corbyn but I don’t believe he’d be any worse as PM than the present incumbent.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The right belongs to the Tories, Labour cannot move in that direction and expect success. It comes down to the reality that the electorate is generally Tory and Labour have picked a strategy which will not win them an election and moved them away from the ideological base.
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I think if the party went down the Blair route (but with someone a lot less spendy than the one-eyed pension monster in 11) they'd see some success again.

There are a lot of people like me who want to vote for a party that is economically right wing but socially further to the left. We have to vote Conservative because to do otherwise would be ridiculous. A centrist alternative would win a lot of votes.
 
scaramanga said:
I think if the party went down the Blair route (but with someone a lot less spendy than the one-eyed pension monster in 11) they'd see some success again.

There are a lot of people like me who want to vote for a party that is economically right wing but socially further to the left. We have to vote Conservative because to do otherwise would be ridiculous. A centrist alternative would win a lot of votes.
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That crowd of people reads The Times, you are insignificant in terms of the electorate. A lot of people in our echo chambers are minded like you as we are middle class and well to do. But we just don't represent the masses.
 
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