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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

dawaxman said:
Can I ask, of the people who are quite outspoken in the condemnation of Israels actions at the moment, do you agree with the creation of Israel in 1948? Or do you oppose it? Do you understand why it was formed? Do you know which countries voted against it and what some of them did when it eventually came into being?

Do you know what hamas have been doing in Israel for the last 16 years (for example)?

Do you genuinely think that Israels military are purposely targeting innocent civilians? Or do you think that, maybe, hamas are being clever in putting the civilians they're supposedly "with" in the line of fire on purpose?

How do you suggest Israel should handle the situation instead of what they're currently doing?

I'm asking all of the above with genuine interest...I hear a lot of condemnation but not a lot of conversation about how else they could handle the situation
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Curious as to why nobody has replied to this post...I felt it was thought provoking at least

Also, to add to the above questions, has anybody stopped to question why there is an Iron Dome? Anybody care to hazard a guess to the number of rockets fired into Israel from gaza over the last few decades? Does anybody have a view on suicide bombings which have happened frequently in populous areas in Israel - casualties of which have been civilians/families/children?
 
dawaxman said:
Curious as to why nobody has replied to this post...I felt it was thought provoking at least

Also, to add to the above questions, has anybody stopped to question why there is an Iron Dome? Anybody care to hazard a guess to the number of rockets fired into Israel from gaza over the last few decades? Does anybody have a view on suicide bombings which have happened frequently in populous areas in Israel - casualties of which have been civilians/families/children?
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I started responding then thought, 'whats the point?'

You simply refuse to look at the actions of the terrorist government of Israel in any other manner than 'self defence, or condemn any of their disgusting human rights violations and apartheid-level sanctions, despite the overwhelming evidence of this and them being in literal breach of many acts. So it's not a two-way discussion. Why don't you count up the number of civilians that have died from both sides just in the last week. Why don't you educate yourself that the 'Hamas is hiding behind its civilians' is becoming a very tired excuse for the heinous crimes committed by the Israeli government, as evidence once again is showing that there was no Hamas presence in the Associated Press building (any other country blowing up an AP building would have been destroyed by the media and condemned by governments), in schools where civilians were going to be housed after their homes had been destroyed, roads leading to hospitals and other vital buildings. Do you think it is disgusting that Palestine isn't even recognised as a state by the US?

The world has always been very aware of the despicable acts of Hamas against its own people and innocent civilians of Israel. It is now waking up to what the atrocities the Israeli government, backed by other world powers has been inflicting on Palestinians and causing grave harm to its own people.
 
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I just get saddened by how this debate slips into football-like in and out groups. People have their side and that is it. Humans are just very tribal. We can’t help it. If it was a Muslim vs Muslim conflict there wouldn’t be people driving around decrying other Muslims and if it was Israeli against Israeli there wouldn’t be the contempt for lives as there is in Palestine. There is no doubt in the west and in Israel lives are more precious. And for that matter they are even less precious than in Palestine in places like Syria where the number of children killed during the war was 20,000 which is just staggering. The more we - and those across the divide in Israel - can take ourselves out of polarised groups to see things from both sides, the sooner peace can be reached.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
AuroRaman said:
I started responding then thought, 'whats the point?'

You simply refuse to look at the actions of the terrorist government of Israel in any other manner than 'self defence, or condemn any of their disgusting human rights violations and apartheid-level sanctions, despite the overwhelming evidence of this and them being in literal breach of many acts. So it's not a two-way discussion. Why don't you count up the number of civilians that have died from both sides just in the last week. Why don't you educate yourself that the 'Hamas is hiding behind its civilians' is becoming a very tired excuse for the heinous crimes committed by the Israeli government, as evidence once again is showing that there was no Hamas presence in the Associated Press building (any other country blowing up an AP building would have been destroyed by the media and condemned by governments), in schools where civilians were going to be housed after their homes had been destroyed, roads leading to hospitals and other vital buildings. Do you think it is disgusting that Palestine isn't even recognised as a state by the US?

The world has always been very aware of the despicable acts of Hamas against its own people and innocent civilians of Israel. It is now waking up to what the atrocities the Israeli government, backed by other world powers has been inflicting on Palestinians and causing grave harm to its own people.
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Not true at all, honestly

I just want acceptance that there is severe wrong doing on BOTH sides...
 
SpurMeUp said:
I just get saddened by how this debate slips into football-like in and out groups. People have their side and that is it. Humans are just very tribal. We can’t help it. If it was a Muslim vs Muslim conflict there wouldn’t be people driving around decrying other Muslims and if it was Israeli against Israeli there wouldn’t be the contempt for lives as there is in Palestine. There is no doubt in the west and in Israel lives are more precious. And for that matter they are even less precious in places like Syria where the number of children killed during the war was 20,000 which is just staggering. The more we - and those across the divide in Israel - can take ourselves out of polarised groups to see things from both sides, the sooner peace can be reached.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. I detest war and any kind of killing. I've been to Rwanda and met people who were directly impacted by the genocide there a mere 27 years ago, yet very few people know of the 1m+ lives lost there

It's terrible

I comment on the middle East situation only because of the onesidedness of the conversation...
 
dawaxman said:
Not true at all, honestly

I just want acceptance that there is severe wrong doing on BOTH sides...
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That's not how you are coming across. And it's such a shame that whenever oppression of Palestinian people is brought up, regardless of the forum, the onus goes back on the plight of Israel and the terrorist actions of Hamas. Thankfully the generations after me have woken up to this nonsense.
 
AuroRaman said:
That's not how you are coming across. And it's such a shame that whenever oppression of Palestinian people is brought up, regardless of the forum, the onus goes back on the plight of Israel and the terrorist actions of Hamas. Thankfully the generations after me have woken up to this nonsense.
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But they are intrinsically linked, with hamas being the bigger enemy to peace and the plight of the people that live in those areas
 
I guess the the question comes down to whether you think Hamas should be able to fight and kill people in pursuit of their goal.

Thing is if you say Hamas should be able to fight and kill Israelis because of occupation etc then it is very hard to say Israel shouldn’t defend its population too.

I’ve only been to Tel Aviv for 3 days, but from what I saw it is a very open and welcoming lace where you can be anything - Palestine, gay, orthodox religious or atheist etc. It is hard to begrudge Israel building a civilised nation. Though I completely agree their right-wing nutters are as bad as any other fundamentalist. They are a democracy and have to balance out public sentiment. If rockets were falling on London, and we have the means to stop them, at what point should we act? After 1 death or 5 or 10 or before any occur?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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