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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Mikey10 said:
Looks like someone forgot to take the oven-ready deal out of the freezer.

Seems it was more wishful thinking, bluster and lies from our PM. I mean, who could have guessed?
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It's almost as if there's two parties in this negotiation.
 
Rorschach said:
This is not how I understand it. The WA, of which the NI protocol is a part, is already a legal treaty that stays in force whether or not a free trade agreement is agreed upon. It is the replacement for May's backstop and is renewed by the NI Assembly (or not) every 4 years under a mechanism called consent. The UK has already signed this into law and this is why Boris is getting so much flak. He is being accused of trying to roll back some of the provisions in this agreement.
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I can't see why we'd enter a binding agreement without any deal to bind it to and neither should we.

If the EU doesn't want to deal then everything is off. Just as we can't have all the things we want and none of the costs, neither can they. They don't get an easy out on Ireland without giving us something back too.
 
scaramanga said:
I can't see why we'd enter a binding agreement without any deal to bind it to and neither should we.

If the EU doesn't want to deal then everything is off. Just as we can't have all the things we want and none of the costs, neither can they. They don't get an easy out on Ireland without giving us something back too.
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I think you're rewriting history to suit your agenda.

;)
 
scaramanga said:
"No deal is better than a bad deal."

I think you're rewriting history to suit your agenda.
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Nope. Pre-vote everyone was talking only about a trading agreement with the EU. No deal makes zero sense. It is there as a negotiating position. Who would want to impair UK trade and prosperity? So the international agreement on NI is important, as is our reputation on the international stage. Are we a nation that respects international law.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Nope. Pre-vote everyone was talking only about a trading agreement with the EU. No deal makes zero sense. It is there as a negotiating position. Who would want to impair UK trade and prosperity? So the international agreement on NI is important, as is our reputation on the international stage. Are we a nation that respects international law.
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We are country whose Government was found I contempt of the Parliament it is head of with no consequences.

A country of loop hole exploiters.

We have gone from being a nation of shop keepers to being a nation of PPE salespeople.
With a corrupt government to boot.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Nope. Pre-vote everyone was talking only about a trading agreement with the EU. No deal makes zero sense. It is there as a negotiating position. Who would want to impair UK trade and prosperity? So the international agreement on NI is important, as is our reputation on the international stage. Are we a nation that respects international law.
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Of course that's the preferred option but not at any cost.

That was clear from the very start - other than trying to push an agenda, I can't see how you would fail to have understood that.
 
Diamond Lights said:
A: "We want British laws to be decided in Britain"

B: "Ok, well the government is in contempt for its proceedings"

A: "THE JUDGES ARE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE AND TRYING TO STOP BREXIT BECAUSE THEY'RE REMAINERS"

Brexit is toxic, just poison.
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It's was always the perfect tool for deception (great ref to your avatar there - pat's myself on the back).
The online thing better would have been a pandemic - and you can't politically manufacturer that
 
scaramanga said:
Of course that's the preferred option but not at any cost.

That was clear from the very start - other than trying to push an agenda, I can't see how you would fail to have understood that.
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No one talked about no trading deal with Europe pre-vote. As outlined Farrage was talking about a Norway like trading setup - that is how far away no deal was from even the hardest brexit supporters. I don't believe its an option now either. It's just a negotiating position. The problem with it being used as a negotiating position is the UK suffers more than the other side from a no deal exit, and the danger is the EU calls our bluff that no deal is better. Any deal that allows free trade is actually better. And the best trade deal was the one we had in the EU. That is why it is almost impossible/difficult to deliver value from brexit.
 
scaramanga said:
:D

In all seriousness though, why would we agree to a condition out of our control to get nothing in return? If we're not having a deal, then nothing that's agreed holds any value.
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The quid pro quo was the NI protocol for trade discussions. This is the whole backstop discussion again really. Anyway even if they didn't read it like brainiac Duncan Smith this what they signed up to.
 
SpurMeUp said:
No one talked about no trading deal with Europe pre-vote. As outlined Farrage was talking about a Norway like trading setup - that is how far away no deal was from even the hardest brexit supporters. I don't believe its an option now either. It's just a negotiating position. The problem with it being used as a negotiating position is the UK suffers more than the other side from a no deal exit, and the danger is the EU calls our bluff that no deal is better. Any deal that allows free trade is actually better. And the best trade deal was the one we had in the EU. That is why it is almost impossible/difficult to deliver value from brexit.
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At that time the EU were offering us a list of off-the-shelf deals that we could choose from - do you remember the little infographic they used?

Those were all options and the alternative to a custom deal until the EU got into a hissy fit and stormed off with the ball.
 
Rorschach said:
The quid pro quo was the NI protocol for trade discussions. This is the whole backstop discussion again really. Anyway even if they didn't read it like brainiac Duncan Smith this what they signed up to.
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And without it being bound into some kind of future trade agreement, there's no reason whatsoever why we would continue with it.

The EU don't want a border, so I can imagine that being a huge boost for NI under no deal as companies will flock there to be able to walk their goods into the EU.
 
scaramanga said:
And without it being bound into some kind of future trade agreement, there's no reason whatsoever why we would continue with it.

The EU don't want a border, so I can imagine that being a huge boost for NI under no deal as companies will flock there to be able to walk their goods into the EU.
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Are you making these points with conviction or are you just playing devil's advocate?
 
scaramanga said:
At that time the EU were offering us a list of off-the-shelf deals that we could choose from - do you remember the little infographic they used?

Those were all options and the alternative to a custom deal until the EU got into a hissy fit and stormed off with the ball.
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We didn't want any of those deals. We wanted ++

Thank goodness we're in capable hands. People who clearly understood all this. People who foresaw this happening. :rolleyes:
 
The UK’s top government lawyer resigns; the previous Conservative PM says that the government’s proposal on the NI protocol breaks international law; and the NI secretary agrees while outlining plans to press ahead.

We are in the process of sacrificing all rights to be horrified by Trump.
 
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There is a cause for alarm, I am worried they are going to tank the economy as we are not going to be prepared for a no deal. Playing Russian roulette with the EU hasn't worked so far and I don't assume they will cave to these aggressive tactics by Brexit phalanx.
 
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