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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Grays_1890 said:
No mine is don't anti of what Corbyn was doing, clean the party from it's clear issues, something Kier is doing and at pace. Another is to engage and not abuse or label people, this was a clear issue and TBH you follow that typically Corbyn baby in that you get personal and abusive, that doesn't breed party progression, it's proved globally to stop it.

In seriousness you attrbute my name to a post about Bullying which I have never been, you disagree with me that's fine, the personal nature you chose earlier was not and ironically you are showing the signs of bullying and belittling because you don't agree.

Personally that side of engagement where your wrongfully attributing me to certain things without proof namely the bully side I would ask you to stop a it's become an issue for me. I ask that these posts stop as you are wrong with your tone and also the your not Labour side, you don't have to believe it but I'm telling you wholeheartedly I have been Labour all my life, there is no reason in my mind to dig me out weekly un provoked like today.
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Where in this conversation did I abuse you? I defended you at the outset. You took umbrage at me describing you as a life long Labour voter. Never once did I associate you with bullying either. You are just making stuff up. I said "I hope nobody accuses you of being a bully." But if you are having issues I will go easy on you from now on. I don't want to be the bane of some poor sod's existence and I would hate to think that anyone is taking things really to heart. I'm sorry if that is the case.. :)
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Where in this conversation did I abuse you? I defended you at the outset. You took umbrage at me describing you as a life long Labour voter. Never once did I associate you with bullying either. You are just making stuff up. I said "I hope nobody accuses you of being a bully." But if you are having issues I will go easy on you from now on. I don't want to be the bane of some poor sod's existence and I would hate to think that anyone is taking things really to heart. I'm sorry if that is the case.. :)
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Mate we both know the intention of the original post even to just mock.

I can take the difference of opinion the constant personal being called out for purely something you don't believe despite me saying otherwise is starting to get personal and in honesty I think best to leave the forum.

I'm neither a racist or a bully for the record
 
Grays_1890 said:
Mate we both know the intention of the original post even to just mock.

I can take the difference of opinion the constant personal being called out for purely something you don't believe despite me saying otherwise is starting to get personal and in honesty I think best to leave the forum.

I'm neither a racist or a bully for the record
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I never said you were a bully or a racist anywhere on this forum if you read my posts and I have already said that I'm sorry if I have upset you that much. Yes I was mocking you, but not attacking or accusing you of being a bully or racist I have already said as much above
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I never said you were a bully or a racist anywhere on this forum if you read my posts and I have already said that I'm sorry if I have upset you that much. Yes I was mocking you, but not attacking or accusing you of being a bully or racist I have already said as much above
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Fair play

I'm going to have a cooling off period from the forum for a while anyway. Think it's for best

Happy debating all
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I never said you were a bully or a racist anywhere on this forum if you read my posts and I have already said that I'm sorry if I have upset you that much. Yes I was mocking you, but not attacking or accusing you of being a bully or racist I have already said as much above
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Do you work in Labour voter recruitment? :)
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Totally agree with the last part about the government using it to detract from other failings. Because since Cheltenham they have as far as i can see got everything wrong. Even if they say they have been led by the science, which im not so sure on..

Thank you for at least debating it properly with us. My views probably dont defer that much from most of the far lefties on here on this. I dont quite think it should be a free for all but we do have a duty of care to others. My GHod even Farage who i now hate for cosying up to Trump says this.

I think Cameron's idea to go to aid camps was a great one, not without faults as you say there would be others who would slip through the system who need asylum.

Perhaps if the EU could actually work it could have allocated people more evenly. But as you probably know i dont think the EU is workable as anything more then a trading block.

I am not threatening in my next remark but i do worry that the way some particularly on the left try and shut down any debate means that the middle and the right will move further and further to the right. I dont want that, i like a liberal society when it means people can be their sexuality and practice their religions without fear of persecution. But it concerns me for instance when you have universities ban certain people rather then debate with them.

I fear we are producing a generation that will never listen to another persons point of view. When this happens the will be a class war(maybe brexit was the opening battle) i think you will have people of colour on both sides of this class war and worry ot will pave the way for a true nutter to take charge. If you look at the voting patterns for the uk, should Scotland leave it would make it more likely.
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I think it's a fine line sometimes between denying someone a platform to promote their views (when those views are dangerous and discriminatory) versus allowing their views to be aired and debated. If someone has a history of inciting violence for example then I don't think they should be afforded a platform. But otherwise it is a slippery slope towards censorship, which is wrong regardless of where anyone sits on the political spectrum.
Equally, if someone's point of view is a bigoted one, then it is right that they be called out for it (but in a constructive manner where appropriate), and that shouldn't equate to shutting down debate.

Danishfurniturelover said:
But now you have people, people who are semi educated and semi skilled saying how governments and the police cover things up. Whether it is true or not the is a groundswell of opinon and distrust amongst many and that is storing up issues for the future.

.
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Just picking out one part of your post - I guess there might be a lot of people who would say 'welcome to our world' in respect of government/police cover ups.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
My point being liberal or green politics are great but if you push to hard one way it zings back the other way, and i really dont want a Trump in this country.
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I have distilled your post to the above point, not to negate anything you said but to focus on a vitally important point you have made and which I think is essential to get right.
I am, as has been detected, on the left of things. But equally, I am becoming increasingly horrified at how "movements" of the moment are being hijacked by extremists unwilling to discuss or compromise.

I personally believe institutional prejudices have existed for decades and beyond. That does not mean that now there is a oaken of greater realization we should be burning everything down and not working with each other. Nothing gets solved overnight it requires teamwork and acceptance that we will not all agree on every last dot, but have enough in common to work for a better society and to recognize those who have had it worse due to past built-in prejudices.

I could not agree more, the accelerated "cancel" culture is dangerous if only because it will put lots of people who have previously been moderate/felt moderate in the fudge you court. Most people are willing to discuss, debate and even adapt some of their ways if there is discussion. Pejorative rhetoric never helps.

It is actually an incredible opportunity to move forward in a very progressive and inclusive way, and I agree that ALL sides must handle that opportunity properly or blow it totally.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
I don't know about you, but most Labour supporters I know, actually vote for the party and defend left wing arguments. You do neither. So it would seem my appraisal of you is pretty accurate. News flash, Corbyn is no long Labour leader, but still you line up with the right. Hello?
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Here's the thing mate.
Whatever you think go Grays, he is willing to discuss and be honest. I think it is very very valuable. I am happy Grays says what he thinks and believes, because it makes for an honest discussion, whether he is left, right, centre or whatever.
It is always (for me anyway) most satisfying when someone whom I have not met -and who holds several different viewpoints to me- can engage in honest, open discussion. I find Grays to be that.
I wanted to share my view on your exchanges as I think most would see you and I as being m ore aligned in overall viewpoints than many here, and thus to support further discussions between us all...
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
On the day when the extent of the recession is announced what do we have? We have a unicorn....look over there! A dinghy! Oh no, a dinghy, who cares about the the fact that Britain is the worst performing economy in Europe, there is a fudging dinghy! The saps fall for it every time, oh how Rees Moggs must laugh into his corn flakes every morning reading his copy of The Sun as Cummings loosens the pressure slightly on his ball-harness as gesture of benevolence.
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Added some important detail to your post there mate :D

The only way we might stand a chance of people seeing the spray of flimflam being cast is to keep calm but be persistent IMO. How long can anyone really believe Farage (for example) is nothing other than a 2penny huxter arsehole who would use his own mother as trampoline to get attention?
 
Parklaner81 said:
Good for you. Personally, I'm really thankful that I grew out of viewing politics that way, somewhere around my early 20's.
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Hahaha, that was Primark level pot-shotting.
You know, it IS possible to have beliefs which are inclusive of ALL in society and NOT be a separatist, selfish and unempathetic human being? I tell you the biggest irony of all here...some people moan and moan about old Labour traditionalists not realizing that the world has moved on and that their idea of Labour is a dodo in the m modern world, practically unable to be resurrected due to the globalist nature of the world. Yet those same people (largely) voted for Brexit and a seperation from the way the world is working which will ultimately not benefit anyone except for the wealthiest people in the UK. Laughable. You could not make it up.

For the record I was absolutely a socialist Labour supporter in the '70s/'80s, did not care for the direction Bliar took things but recognize that in order to keep up with the world it was somewhat necessary and thus considered him the best option. He lost me 100%on the Iraq vote (thus why I call him Bliar) and now find that there are very few who represent views I find both salient and practical. My overall attitude has (in the last 20) years become one where inclusion and free movement is the thing which will help us survive as a race, thus the EU was a brilliant concept for me and one which we needed to remain within and work within to effect the changes and tweaks it needed.
 
thfcsteff said:
Hahaha, that was Primark level pot-shotting.
You know, it IS possible to have beliefs which are inclusive of ALL in society and NOT be a separatist, selfish and unempathetic human being? I tell you the biggest irony of all here...some people moan and moan about old Labour traditionalists not realizing that the world has moved on and that their idea of Labour is a dodo in the m modern world, practically unable to be resurrected due to the globalist nature of the world. Yet those same people (largely) voted for Brexit and a seperation from the way the world is working which will ultimately not benefit anyone except for the wealthiest people in the UK. Laughable. You could not make it up.

For the record I was absolutely a socialist Labour supporter in the '70s/'80s, did not care for the direction Bliar took things but recognize that in order to keep up with the world it was somewhat necessary and thus considered him the best option. He lost me 100%on the Iraq vote (thus why I call him Bliar) and now find that there are very few who represent views I find both salient and practical. My overall attitude has (in the last 20) years become one where inclusion and free movement is the thing which will help us survive as a race, thus the EU was a brilliant concept for me and one which we needed to remain within and work within to effect the changes and tweaks it needed.
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Not really sure what to make of this.

I think you might have misunderstood my point. It had nothing whatsoever to do with old Labour, new Labour, futuristic Labour, or any other party specifically. It was regarding people supporting a political party - ANY political party - in the manner they would a football team, deeming them worthy of unconditional loyalty no matter what they say, do, or how far they veer from their ideals. Having voted almost all over the political spectrum in my life (something that I imagine will probably surprise you, unless I'm completely misinterpreting the intent behind your second sentence?), I don't think it's something I can be accused of. I've rarely even voted for the same party two elections running...

What did you think I meant?
 
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Parklaner81 said:
Not really sure what to make of this.

I think you might have misunderstood my point. It had nothing whatsoever to do with old Labour, new Labour, futuristic Labour, or any other party specifically. It was regarding people supporting a political party - ANY political party - in the manner they would a football team, deeming them worthy of unconditional loyalty no matter what they say, do, or how far they veer from their ideals. Having voted almost all over the political spectrum in my life (something that I imagine will probably surprise you, unless I'm completely misinterpreting the intent behind your second sentence?), I don't think it's something I can be accused of. I've rarely even voted for the same party two elections running...

What did you think I meant?
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Is there a more polarised issue than Brexit? It is
even more tribal than political loyalty, cutting across previously clear political lines. You seem quite wedded to it regardless of benefits or drawbacks; so one might question whether you are the logical actor who has left any tribal associations behind. Is it possible for anyone to fully?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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