Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Its all on their website within the stats about employment and immigration
-
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Its all on their website within the stats about employment and immigration
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/19/im-standing-labour-leader-clive-lewis
I’m standing to be Labour leader so the truth can be heard
Clive Lewis
The party is at a fork in the road – if it can harness people’s positivity, it can renew this country
I’m standing to be leader of the Labour party for the simple reason that if I don’t, certain necessary truths may go unspoken during the debates of the coming months.
A leadership competition is not an ideal context for honest reflection. The aim is, after all, to win, not to learn and build. In a divided party, there is always a danger that factions will overcome facts; or, with a compromise candidate, that triangulation will trump truth. I want to break this cycle: to use the leadership campaign as an opportunity for us all to learn from each other, and to help our party grow.
That’s the first reason I’m standing: for a chance to tell the truth. With our party on the edge of a precipice, now is the time to dispel our fears and face up to reality. Anything else would mean that the millions of people who still need a Labour government, so badly, would be failed again.
The truth is that to change our country, we have to change ourselves.
Last week’s crushing defeat now poses two simple questions. Why did we lose? And how do we win?
The truth is that despite his enormous achievements in inspiring a new generation of members, Jeremy Corbyn’s first promise as leader was never fulfilled. The party was never democratised on the scale or to the extent that members were led to expect – they were never empowered to campaign, select candidates or determine policy on the scale that was required. This must now change. We don’t need foot soldiers, we need an army of activists who think critically, treat each other with respect and have a serious democratic stake in the movement. I don’t want to manage the labour movement, I want to unleash it. That is the first route to victory.
The truth is that while making a clear break with the New Labour era in terms of policy and personnel, the party was never able to communicate this to voters in our heartlands. When trying to persuade them of our radicalism and sincerity, we often had the legacy of the 2000s thrown back in our faces. Persuading voters that we understand the sources of their long-held resentment and frustration, of their disappointment in how Labour has conducted itself since the 1990s, will be the first step towards winning back their trust.
The truth is that indecisiveness and triangulation on the Brexit issue saw Jeremy’s favourability ratings fall from positive to catastrophic after the June 2017 election. Such prevarication and lack of leadership must never characterise our politics again.
The truth is that after Jeremy became leader, we fought two elections on an electoral system that massively favours the Conservatives, and their voter base of propertied pensioners. A majority of the British public voted for parties of the left or the liberal centre. But this was in no way reflected in the election result. Labour should have committed itself to changing the voting system decades ago, and we have condemned some parts of our country to 40 years of decline by failing to do so.
But to go forward from this point we must tell the truth, not just about what went wrong, but also about what kind of society we believe in. In 2019, we offered some of the right abstractions about promoting equality and opposing austerity. But we never painted a rich and textured picture of life in the society that we proposed to build. Instead we offered a shopping list of rather disconnected policies.
It’s not such lists people live their lives by, but emotions and feelings. My vision for the country is of warmth and energy. A country that starts every conversation and every project – either in business or politics – with a belief in the best in people. This is the hopeful creed of a 21st-century socialism. It is what motivates our members and our most passionate supporters.
Any politics animated by such a positive vision must also be prepared to stand and fight against its enemies, those who degrade our society for their own benefit. Many of our towns have never recovered from the catastrophe of Thatcherism. Young people can’t find homes or meaningful work. Old people struggle without the care they need. None of this has happened by accident, or because of some technical error. It is the result of systematic efforts by the elite, which Boris Johnson represents, to plunder our country to their own advantage.
They will seek to divide us by blaming immigrants and other vulnerable people, and we must not let them.
Two forces will shape our future, and the context of the next general election: the climate crisis and the ongoing technological revolution. Both can be sources either of despair or hope. We can hide behind platitudes and denial, or we can seize these crises as opportunities to renew our country as it has not been renewed since the 1940s.
Everything is down to us and how we react to these changes. Do we seek rich lives within nature’s boundaries, or the desolation that Johnson’s brand of disaster capitalism will ensure? Do we seek a connected, collaborative and more equal society or a world of perpetual surveillance and exploitation?
To convincingly offer such a vision and respond to the hope and fears of climate and technology we need a different kind of party. One that is open, democratic, inquisitive and that expresses solidarity with others inside the party and outside. Labour must be the anchor of a broad movement for change.
We can start to transform the party now. I don’t want to beat the other candidates; I want to learn from them and with them. I want us to use this campaign to reach out to every other progressive force in the country – parties, campaigns and movements – for the biggest conversation possible about how, together, we can change our country for the better. Nothing else will do.
Even at this dark hour, as Labour suffers its own Dunkirk, as retreat is forced on us, I’m an optimist. And my hope is founded in the unshakable belief I have in all of us. People are amazing. Given the support, care and time we can do incredible things. Our job, in the words of Raymond Williams, is “to make hope possible, not despair convincing”. Labour can and must offer hope: not the falsehood that it will do everything, but the real promise that it can help us help each other.
I’m standing to be Labour leader so the truth can be heard
Clive Lewis
The party is at a fork in the road – if it can harness people’s positivity, it can renew this country
I’m standing to be leader of the Labour party for the simple reason that if I don’t, certain necessary truths may go unspoken during the debates of the coming months.
A leadership competition is not an ideal context for honest reflection. The aim is, after all, to win, not to learn and build. In a divided party, there is always a danger that factions will overcome facts; or, with a compromise candidate, that triangulation will trump truth. I want to break this cycle: to use the leadership campaign as an opportunity for us all to learn from each other, and to help our party grow.
That’s the first reason I’m standing: for a chance to tell the truth. With our party on the edge of a precipice, now is the time to dispel our fears and face up to reality. Anything else would mean that the millions of people who still need a Labour government, so badly, would be failed again.
The truth is that to change our country, we have to change ourselves.
Last week’s crushing defeat now poses two simple questions. Why did we lose? And how do we win?
The truth is that despite his enormous achievements in inspiring a new generation of members, Jeremy Corbyn’s first promise as leader was never fulfilled. The party was never democratised on the scale or to the extent that members were led to expect – they were never empowered to campaign, select candidates or determine policy on the scale that was required. This must now change. We don’t need foot soldiers, we need an army of activists who think critically, treat each other with respect and have a serious democratic stake in the movement. I don’t want to manage the labour movement, I want to unleash it. That is the first route to victory.
The truth is that while making a clear break with the New Labour era in terms of policy and personnel, the party was never able to communicate this to voters in our heartlands. When trying to persuade them of our radicalism and sincerity, we often had the legacy of the 2000s thrown back in our faces. Persuading voters that we understand the sources of their long-held resentment and frustration, of their disappointment in how Labour has conducted itself since the 1990s, will be the first step towards winning back their trust.
The truth is that indecisiveness and triangulation on the Brexit issue saw Jeremy’s favourability ratings fall from positive to catastrophic after the June 2017 election. Such prevarication and lack of leadership must never characterise our politics again.
The truth is that after Jeremy became leader, we fought two elections on an electoral system that massively favours the Conservatives, and their voter base of propertied pensioners. A majority of the British public voted for parties of the left or the liberal centre. But this was in no way reflected in the election result. Labour should have committed itself to changing the voting system decades ago, and we have condemned some parts of our country to 40 years of decline by failing to do so.
But to go forward from this point we must tell the truth, not just about what went wrong, but also about what kind of society we believe in. In 2019, we offered some of the right abstractions about promoting equality and opposing austerity. But we never painted a rich and textured picture of life in the society that we proposed to build. Instead we offered a shopping list of rather disconnected policies.
It’s not such lists people live their lives by, but emotions and feelings. My vision for the country is of warmth and energy. A country that starts every conversation and every project – either in business or politics – with a belief in the best in people. This is the hopeful creed of a 21st-century socialism. It is what motivates our members and our most passionate supporters.
Any politics animated by such a positive vision must also be prepared to stand and fight against its enemies, those who degrade our society for their own benefit. Many of our towns have never recovered from the catastrophe of Thatcherism. Young people can’t find homes or meaningful work. Old people struggle without the care they need. None of this has happened by accident, or because of some technical error. It is the result of systematic efforts by the elite, which Boris Johnson represents, to plunder our country to their own advantage.
They will seek to divide us by blaming immigrants and other vulnerable people, and we must not let them.
Two forces will shape our future, and the context of the next general election: the climate crisis and the ongoing technological revolution. Both can be sources either of despair or hope. We can hide behind platitudes and denial, or we can seize these crises as opportunities to renew our country as it has not been renewed since the 1940s.
Everything is down to us and how we react to these changes. Do we seek rich lives within nature’s boundaries, or the desolation that Johnson’s brand of disaster capitalism will ensure? Do we seek a connected, collaborative and more equal society or a world of perpetual surveillance and exploitation?
To convincingly offer such a vision and respond to the hope and fears of climate and technology we need a different kind of party. One that is open, democratic, inquisitive and that expresses solidarity with others inside the party and outside. Labour must be the anchor of a broad movement for change.
We can start to transform the party now. I don’t want to beat the other candidates; I want to learn from them and with them. I want us to use this campaign to reach out to every other progressive force in the country – parties, campaigns and movements – for the biggest conversation possible about how, together, we can change our country for the better. Nothing else will do.
Even at this dark hour, as Labour suffers its own Dunkirk, as retreat is forced on us, I’m an optimist. And my hope is founded in the unshakable belief I have in all of us. People are amazing. Given the support, care and time we can do incredible things. Our job, in the words of Raymond Williams, is “to make hope possible, not despair convincing”. Labour can and must offer hope: not the falsehood that it will do everything, but the real promise that it can help us help each other.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Where?
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
I'm definitely with you on this. Opposing for the sake of opposing is one of my real pet peeves in politics. And surely, when seen to be doing this, it erodes the very political capital that (I think?) you referred to earlier.
FWIW I've always personally found Labour slightly worse for this than any other party. I think it was definitely a factor in their Brexit posturing, and it's something that I genuinely hope they'll learn from going forward.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
It's getting done !!
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
What's happened to the Labour leave MP's...?
StephenH
David Ginola
FTFY
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
All I found using Google and the ONS was this https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...nthelabourmarket/november2019#employment-data
Didn't find the 200,000 unemployed migrants.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
I wonder if people feel a wave of sovereignty washing over them?
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
6 Labour MP's defied Corbyn to vote in favour of the bill
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
I'm quite impressed with that, actually. I realised after I wrote the post that a good number of MP's hadn't voted - at first glance I mistakenly assumed that the full slate of tories had backed it but no-one else.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Good, only wasted 12 months acting like arseholes in the commons.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Ex-Labour leader Ed Miliband will sit on a panel of party figures to review its general election failure.
Labour Together, which describes itself as a network of activists from all traditions, is setting up a commission to "map out a route back to power".
It says the panel will view attempts to pin the blame on a single cause, such as Brexit or Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, as simplistic and wrong.
Members, focus groups in heartlands, and defeated candidates will get a say.
Labour lost its fourth general election in a row on Thursday, 12 December, recording its worst performance, in terms of seats, since 1935, as a string of constituencies in its traditional Northern strongholds fell to the Conservatives.
A row has broken out between the different wings of the party about what caused the defeat, as contenders to replace leader Jeremy Corbyn jockey for position.
Labour Together was launched after the 2015 general election by a group of Labour MPs, including Lisa Nandy, one of those tipped to be lining up a leadership bid.
It says it wants to involve all wings of the party, from left-wing campaign group Momentum to the centrist pressure group Progress, in its post-mortem.
The group aims to publish its report by the end of February, before the new Labour leader is chosen.
Labour Together's commissioners intend to:
Speaking to Radio 4's Today programme, she said there was "a real appetite" for Labour members of all traditions to come together and analyse what has changed.
"I think retreating into a factional-based analysis would be the worst thing we could do at this juncture," she said.
Ms Powell added: "The Labour coalition has fundamentally changed over the last 20 years.
"Unless we properly reflect on that, then whoever is leader next won't be able to deal with it."
Other confirmed commissioners include Birmingham Ladywood MP Shabana Mahmood, Jo Platt, who lost her seat in the former stronghold of Leigh, Greater Manchester, Sienna Rodgers, editor of the news website LabourList, and James Meadway, former economic adviser to shadow chancellor John McDonnell.
The panel is also expected to recruit a trade union representative and a local organiser.
Ms Rodgers said the review would pore over the results in "an even-handed way, which doesn't start with blaming one faction, or individual".
Some MPs who lost their seat blame Mr Corbyn's unpopularity with voters.
Mr Corbyn says Labour "won the argument" but blamed the media and the fact that the campaign was dominated by Brexit, rather than Labour's plans to boost public spending.
But internal opponents of Mr Corbyn say the party must ditch his left-wing policy agenda to stand any chance of regaining power.
Labour last won a general election in 2005 under the leadership of former Prime Minister Tony Blair.
Mr Blair said last week that the "takeover of the Labour Party by the far left" had "turned it into a glorified protest movement, with cult trimmings, utterly incapable of being a credible government".
Labour Together, which describes itself as a network of activists from all traditions, is setting up a commission to "map out a route back to power".
It says the panel will view attempts to pin the blame on a single cause, such as Brexit or Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, as simplistic and wrong.
Members, focus groups in heartlands, and defeated candidates will get a say.
Labour lost its fourth general election in a row on Thursday, 12 December, recording its worst performance, in terms of seats, since 1935, as a string of constituencies in its traditional Northern strongholds fell to the Conservatives.
A row has broken out between the different wings of the party about what caused the defeat, as contenders to replace leader Jeremy Corbyn jockey for position.
Labour Together was launched after the 2015 general election by a group of Labour MPs, including Lisa Nandy, one of those tipped to be lining up a leadership bid.
It says it wants to involve all wings of the party, from left-wing campaign group Momentum to the centrist pressure group Progress, in its post-mortem.
The group aims to publish its report by the end of February, before the new Labour leader is chosen.
Labour Together's commissioners intend to:
- Interview all 59 MPs who lost their seats this month, as well as defeated candidates in target seats
- Analyse election data
- Ask organisers, councillors and activists what went right and wrong
- Survey members
Speaking to Radio 4's Today programme, she said there was "a real appetite" for Labour members of all traditions to come together and analyse what has changed.
"I think retreating into a factional-based analysis would be the worst thing we could do at this juncture," she said.
Ms Powell added: "The Labour coalition has fundamentally changed over the last 20 years.
"Unless we properly reflect on that, then whoever is leader next won't be able to deal with it."
Other confirmed commissioners include Birmingham Ladywood MP Shabana Mahmood, Jo Platt, who lost her seat in the former stronghold of Leigh, Greater Manchester, Sienna Rodgers, editor of the news website LabourList, and James Meadway, former economic adviser to shadow chancellor John McDonnell.
The panel is also expected to recruit a trade union representative and a local organiser.
Ms Rodgers said the review would pore over the results in "an even-handed way, which doesn't start with blaming one faction, or individual".
Some MPs who lost their seat blame Mr Corbyn's unpopularity with voters.
Mr Corbyn says Labour "won the argument" but blamed the media and the fact that the campaign was dominated by Brexit, rather than Labour's plans to boost public spending.
But internal opponents of Mr Corbyn say the party must ditch his left-wing policy agenda to stand any chance of regaining power.
Labour last won a general election in 2005 under the leadership of former Prime Minister Tony Blair.
Mr Blair said last week that the "takeover of the Labour Party by the far left" had "turned it into a glorified protest movement, with cult trimmings, utterly incapable of being a credible government".
StephenH
David Ginola
This!
They need to "review" why Corbyn got beat! ........christ on a bike! you couldn't write it!
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
See Jezza still banging on on twitter
Has he not worked out yet that his party got totally embarassed in the recent election
Has he not worked out yet that his party got totally embarassed in the recent election
It's fudging departed is what it is. I suspect my 6 year old son could explain the economics behind what a terrible idea it is.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
It's a temporary measure.
Johnson will have a list of "electorate pleasing" policies to drip feed every two months.
Ultimately they'll all favour business.
But in the short term he has to show the Red Wall he is "on their side".
After Dec 2020 he will have lots of freedom to redress the balance in favour of business, by which time people will be comfortable with him being PM and "trust" he has the country at heart.
It's the Trump effect. People are stupid. Once you buy their favour, you can do whatever you like. This is the first stage of the payment on his purchase.
Whatever happens with Iran however could be interesting in his PM'ship.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
So im quite pleased with Johnson's new laws which will finally crack down on the so called traveller community. I have an Irish wife and i can tell you from my many trips over to Ireland they hate these scum bags as much as we do.
I am dismayed that the reservoirs are still not full and hate southern water. It is one of the services i would like to see renationalised but with no Corbyn that chance may have gone.
I want a leader tough on crime like Johnson but one who is open to doing things a bit differently as well.
My last post for a bit, apt it should be in this thread. Have a good new year ladies and i will see you all on the other side.
I am dismayed that the reservoirs are still not full and hate southern water. It is one of the services i would like to see renationalised but with no Corbyn that chance may have gone.
I want a leader tough on crime like Johnson but one who is open to doing things a bit differently as well.
My last post for a bit, apt it should be in this thread. Have a good new year ladies and i will see you all on the other side.