Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Gutter Boy]

Socialism illegal under EU laws....what a gas!

Might you explain what the French are up to? Their government - or the people - own part of Renault, EDF, Total, Air-France/KLM the railways etc. How the hell did they do this when in the EU!? Swines. The EU has lots of socialist nations far more socialist than the UK.

There is nothing stopping the UK from supporting community over multi-nationals now. Furthermore, the EU protects workers rights and our environment - things the Tories want to tear up. Would you be happy with that?

The whole design of the EU is it looks after boring trade laws etc If we want transparency - it is there. You have an MEP. You have elections. But who cares about the details of trade deal with Canada? Or stopping factories polluting our seas? THe EU just gets on with it, saving the UK time and hassle. And if the UK doesn't like the new law - we have a veto.

"Little by little there was a slide towards the allurements of degeneracy; assembly rooms, bathing establishments and smart dinner parties. In their naivety the Britons called it civilisation when it was really all part of their servitude"

The minute anyone says anything is "too boring to worry your pretty little head about", you know you are being royally screwed over

 

[P.D.]

@SpurMeUp - completely agree re; current polling and Tory actions.
And part of that is why Labour are currently keeping their powder dry - it's too early, the election campaign hasn't officially started yet.
Fracking; Labour - "it should never have needed cancelling, it shouldn't have started in the first place".....is a lead in line for environmental policies. Likely to be a winner of votes
NHS; "look what the Tories have done over the past decade. We are THE party of the NHS". That's an easy sell for Labour.

The current polling and Tory actions will nothing but a distant memory in two/three weeks time, let alone in the final week before the election.

This Labour party have a lot of very talented campaigners (not sure on their talent for governances however!).
It's going to be a weird campaign for the electorate. Almost like the last half of extra time in a huge semi final - everyone is exhausted and just wants it over with. But they have to muster up something.
I usually love election periods - but even I'm over it.
So I think a few nice promises will be the difference maker; they can get remainers on board with Ref 2 and the fatigued (the leavers who don't think Brexit will happen irrespective of the outcome) on board with promises of making the country more fair and affluent (a reason many voted to leave apparatus).
That leaves the Tories with No Deal Brexiters and hard line Tories. Which won't be enough.
Unless the Tories push a No Deal angle - that might get some Leavers back on side.

I could be way off, and it's pretty hard to predict. It's going to be interesting.

Difficult to know what will cut through, if you think the other way you could say his plan to nationalise companies and dilute shares will heavily affect pension schemes, allowing people to buy their rented homes at a discount is unfair, allowing an inheritance tax limit of 125K could be termed in the papers as a death tax etc.

Guess we'll have to wait for the manifestos to come out first, Labour will have lost some of the surprise element and many students may now go back to the lib dems.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Difficult to know what will cut through, if you think the other way you could say his plan to nationalise companies and dilute shares will heavily affect pension schemes, allowing people to buy their rented homes at a discount is unfair, allowing an inheritance tax limit of 125K could be termed in the papers as a death tax etc.

Guess we'll have to wait for the manifestos to come out first, Labour will have lost some of the surprise element and many students may now go back to the lib dems.

I don't think the fees things has been forgiven. The three big student areas in my city have all gone from Labour to Green in the most recent council elections.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Rees Mogg, the gift that keeps on giving. I'll bet the Albino clown shoe puts the gag on this liability before too long. Every time this relic from the 18th century opens it's mouth, I reckon the Tories lose a couple of thousand votes.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Rees Mogg, the gift that keeps on giving. I'll bet the Albino clown shoe puts the gag on this liability before too long. Every time this relic from the 18th century opens it's mouth, I reckon the Tories lose a couple of thousand votes.

In this case he's right though. Humans have a fight or flight instinct for a very good reason. Passively submitting your life to the competence (or not) of others is usually not a bright idea. In an emergency always trust your instincts over the instructions of officials (whose primary motivation in the situation is likely to be utilitarian, rather than your individual survival)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Back at the Lib Dem campaign launch, Ms Swinson says she will not help Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn become prime minister - should the election result not be clear-cut.

"i'm absolutely categorically ruling out Lib Dem votes putting Jeremy Corbyn into No 10," she says.

She accuses him of being "unfit to be prime minister" and of not giving "a straight answer on Brexit".

"His plans for the economy would take us back to the 1970s," she adds.

She also criticises the Labour leader for his "utter failure to root out anti-Semitism in his own party".

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Mr Corbyn says the Conservatives have "failed on Brexit for three years" and Labour will "get Brexit sorted" within six months, if he becomes PM.

He says Labour will negotiate a "sensible" Brexit deal, then give the public "a final say" through another referendum.

“It won’t be a re-run of 2016," he says. "This time the choice will be leaving with a sensible deal or remaining in the EU.”



So remain or BINO, as expected...

 

[monkeybarry]

Back at the Lib Dem campaign launch, Ms Swinson says she will not help Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn become prime minister - should the election result not be clear-cut.

"i'm absolutely categorically ruling out Lib Dem votes putting Jeremy Corbyn into No 10," she says.

She accuses him of being "unfit to be prime minister" and of not giving "a straight answer on Brexit".

"His plans for the economy would take us back to the 1970s," she adds.

She also criticises the Labour leader for his "utter failure to root out anti-Semitism in his own party".

She is right. But deluded - LDs won't get a majority.
It's exactly the same tactic Clegg used before being more successful than expected and going into coalition.
I can see a repeat this time.
Although I suspect Swinson thinks she can go into coalition as PM.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Back at the Lib Dem campaign launch, Ms Swinson says she will not help Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn become prime minister - should the election result not be clear-cut.

"i'm absolutely categorically ruling out Lib Dem votes putting Jeremy Corbyn into No 10," she says.

She accuses him of being "unfit to be prime minister" and of not giving "a straight answer on Brexit".

"His plans for the economy would take us back to the 1970s," she adds.

She also criticises the Labour leader for his "utter failure to root out anti-Semitism in his own party".

Ha, ha, what do people expect she is Tory Lite, as is her party.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

In this case he's right though. Humans have a fight or flight instinct for a very good reason. Passively submitting your life to the competence (or not) of others is usually not a bright idea. In an emergency always trust your instincts over the instructions of officials (whose primary motivation in the situation is likely to be utilitarian, rather than your individual survival)

How does that explain people who died in stairwells then, the man is a fudgewit1

 

[Baleforce]

She is right. But deluded - LDs won't get a majority.
It's exactly the same tactic Clegg used before being more successful than expected and going into coalition.
I can see a repeat this time.
Although I suspect Swinson thinks she can go into coalition as PM.

she was quite specific in saying "Corbyn", rather than "Labour"...

 

[monkeybarry]

she was quite specific in saying "Corbyn", rather than "Labour"...

Very good point

 

[wiziwig]

@wiziwig Farrage pivoting to a less racist stance is not an ethical move. It is because he recognises his appeal is limited as a racist party. However, he will use it if it gets him votes - as was the case with Brexit. The Brexit vote would not have got over the line without him putting immigration front and centre so no one noticed the economic implications of Brexit. How do you feel that Brexit could lead to a less white UK? Maybe that is another reason Farrage has stepped away from immigration now.

Farage pivoting to a less racist stance, is an interesting comment .... So in your opinion, he's being less racist now than he was before as he wants to increase his appeal?

When Farage was 'more racist' than he is now, UKIP were the third largest voted party with a near four million votes in the 2015 general election, i.e. 12.5% of the vote. Their vote count was larger than both the Libs and SNP combined. Clearly enough people were not put off by his 'very racist' stance back then, and were happy to have our membership of the EU and to also have immigration debated.

Forward to the present day , You Gov poll's current projections for the now 'less racist' Farage and his Brexit Party, stand at no higher than 12.5%. He's taken mass immigration out of the debate and yet the popularity of his message is no higher..No doubt in the coming weeks, we will be hearing from him the merits of an Australian points system.

Do you deem any political party as racist, if said political party wants to drastically reduce immigration numbers, take control of the immigration numbers and to be critical of the open border policies of the Lib/Lab/Cons? .....If no, can you tell me of any politicians and a political party that are serious about getting the immigration numbers down, that you do not deem to be racist?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Farage pivoting to a less racist stance, is an interesting comment .... So in your opinion, he's being less racist now than he was before as he wants to increase his appeal?

Yes exactly. Maybe we could put racist in " " as he always sails close to the wind, but probably the right side of the line not be labeled an outright racist. He recognised that when UKIP became associated with the BNP etc it was time to move on. The Brexit party just gave him a fresh vehicle.

When Farage was 'more racist' than he is now, UKIP were the third largest voted party with a near four million votes in the 2015 general election, i.e. 12.5% of the vote. Their vote count was larger than both the Libs and SNP combined. Clearly enough people were not put off by his 'very racist' stance back then, and were happy to have our membership of the EU and to also have immigration debated.

Forward to the present day , You Gov poll's current projections for the now 'less racist' Farage and his Brexit Party, stand at no higher than 12.5%. He's taken mass immigration out of the debate and yet the popularity of his message is no higher..No doubt in the coming weeks, we will be hearing from him the merits of an Australian points system.

Do you deem any political party as racist, if said political party wants to drastically reduce immigration numbers, take control of the immigration numbers and to be critical of the open border policies of the Lib/Lab/Cons? .....If no, can you tell me of any politicians and a political party that are serious about getting the immigration numbers down, that you do not deem to be racist?

He has taken immigration out of the debate, exactly. Why? It was the key to the Brexit vote.

I would not say that those policies constitute racism. But the billboard posters of brown folks queuing up played up to some base human instincts and don't always sit comfortably with many. Partly because the messaging was based on Turkey letting in migrants - but they are not in the EU. So it was fearmongering and a lie. Furthermore, the reality of Brexit would likely see less white migrants and a more colorful range of migrants if we make it harder to migrate from the EU and need to make up the shortfall. The majority of migration now is from rest of the world, Asia etc and we the UK control that migration now. So Farage's premise or promise was really a false one. And that is why he is very happy to roll back on his stance on immigration. It served a purpose for him. Now he has Brexit itself, he doesn't need to grab your attention with migration. Through history politicians have used race as a quick, easy way to get attention. Farage is no different.

 

[wiziwig]

Hmm.

Leopards and spots and all that.

I wonder which party most of those 4 million voters will look to this time around?

Thanks but I think I’ll hold back on the Farage appreciation.

I were merely offering a possible explanation for the outrage felt by your friends to your comment, "Farage being one of the two biggest lady gardens in the world"..

I should imagine most of the 4 million will vote tactically and their votes will go to either the Conservatives or Brexit Party....

My Appreciation comment explained as best as I can, sort of

In the 2010 general election, the BNP won over a half million votes ( mainly up North ) and had it not been for the UKIP party siphoning and splitting their votes in the 2015 election by also being vociferous against uncontrolled immigration, the BNP would quite possibly have taken at least a couple of seats in the House of Commons (Oldham and Burnley).

After the 2016 referendum, instead of building on UKIP's foundations, Farage helped to destroy the UKIP party by installing the 5th columnist Henry Bolton as leader to destroy it from within. Once Henry Bolton was found out and sent packing, Farage then labeled UKIP racist.

For political parties of the size of BNP and UKIP, losing deposits at elections can set them back financially in a way that they cannot ever recover..

Farage has done more than you know in successfully keeping the uncontrolled mass immigration debate, out of the House Of Commons....So yes, the diversity is our strength crowd and all of those, that do not wish mass immigration into the UK to be debated in the MSM and in Parliament's chambers , should be more appreciative of his work.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The gloves are off, and then on again, and the Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage is accusing the Labour party of offering a "rigged referendum in which the choice is Remain vs Remain".

Speaking from a boxing ring in Bolsover, Derbyshire, a Labour constituency, he says if Labour wins the election, it will re-negotiate a Brexit deal with Brussels to keep the UK effectively part of the customs union and single market.

He adds: "They will then put that to a referendum...and they will put Remain against their new deal, which is effectively, Remain, and they will campaign against the deal that they've negotiated."

He accuses Labour of offering "a rigged referendum" "with a completely false choice that effectively leaves us in [the EU]".

But Jeremy Corbyn says his plan for dealing with Brexit is "clear and simple".

 

[SpurMeUp]

The gloves are off, and then on again, and the Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage is accusing the Labour party of offering a "rigged referendum in which the choice is Remain vs Remain".

Speaking from a boxing ring in Bolsover, Derbyshire, a Labour constituency, he says if Labour wins the election, it will re-negotiate a Brexit deal with Brussels to keep the UK effectively part of the customs union and single market.

He adds: "They will then put that to a referendum...and they will put Remain against their new deal, which is effectively, Remain, and they will campaign against the deal that they've negotiated."

He accuses Labour of offering "a rigged referendum" "with a completely false choice that effectively leaves us in [the EU]".

But Jeremy Corbyn says his plan for dealing with Brexit is "clear and simple".

He seemed to love the Corbyn model:

Trust the people that lie and say anything?

 

[Rorschach]

Why is Boris sitting on the report into Russian interference into the referendum?

 

[wiziwig]

Yes exactly. Maybe we could put racist in " " as he always sails close to the wind, but probably the right side of the line not be labeled an outright racist. He recognised that when UKIP became associated with the BNP etc it was time to move on. The Brexit party just gave him a fresh vehicle.

Regarding UKIP's association with the BNP... I refer you to my reply in my above post to @Glenda's Legs...

He has taken immigration out of the debate, exactly. Why? It was the key to the Brexit vote.

Because he supports an economy reliant on an increasing population, an imported population.

I would not say that those policies constitute racism. But the billboard posters of brown folks queuing up played up to some base human instincts and don't always sit comfortably with many. Partly because the messaging was based on Turkey letting in migrants - but they are not in the EU. So it was fearmongering and a lie. Furthermore, the reality of Brexit would likely see less white migrants and a more colorful range of migrants if we make it harder to migrate from the EU and need to make up the shortfall. The majority of migration now is from rest of the world, Asia etc and we the UK control that migration now. So Farage's premise or promise was really a false one. And that is why he is very happy to roll back on his stance on immigration. It served a purpose for him. Now he has Brexit itself, he doesn't need to grab your attention with migration. Through history politicians have used race as a quick, easy way to get attention. Farage is no different.

Those pictures were reality... People were coming into Europe from around the world and are still coming in from around the world illegally so it were not a lie and is not a lie to highlight it ......

All the mainstream parties are offering freebies, bigger government to nanny us all and project fear of the other parties..I see politicians playing the blame game and making promises but they're all the same, that they all support having an economy based on a continued influx of vast numbers of people... There's pressure on the infrastructure, schools, hospitals, homes need to be built, rising rents and prices to buy homes, all are consequences of the vast importation of people...

So yes, Farage's post Brexit utopia is more of the same..Less European , more ROTW - fantastic!...

You didn't answer a question I asked that I hoped you would ....You labelled Farage as kinda racist so I asked you if there's any politician or political party that is willing to say that these levels of immigration are unacceptable that you not deem racist. Is there any, or is being opposed to these levels of immigration simply bigoted and hateful?

 

[wiziwig]

This is the kind of bulbrick and contempt of the voter that is going on ...

Here's a short video of Rachael Maskell Labour MP for York Central... Bear in mind that this MP regularly stands up in the HOC and points a finger at the opposition, accuses them of mishandling the NHS, that people are waiting longer to be seen for their ailments, people are dying ...